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Health, Wellness, Sex and Body Discuss 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures at the General Discussion; Two California Emergency Room Covid doctors may start revolution with calm, science/data-based questioning of extreme measures The doctors note that ...

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Old 04-25-2020, 08:08 AM
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Default 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures


Two California Emergency Room Covid doctors may start revolution with calm, science/data-based questioning of extreme measures

The doctors note that the scientific and statistical evidence does not at all justify the public becoming as terrified of this virus as they are and as the media continues to make them feel every day.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/t...treme-measures

"We've never seen where we quarantine the sick and the healthy"
These two men, who have been on the front lines for very long hours every day treating Wuhan flu patients, note, from the evidence they present, that the chance of dying from this virus is actually very low and that it is in fact not much worse than the seasonal flu. They respectfully raise many questions that any good doctors should also naturally be raising.
One of the crucial things they highlight is that we normally do not isolate healthy people during a disease outbreak. During this pandemic, both the sick and the healthy are being forced to endure substantial isolation that results in many negative and even life-threatening outcomes, such as increased suicides and dangerous addictions.
They also warn this extended indoors isolation out of the sun and fresh air will weaken the immune systems of healthy people to the point that they will be more susceptible to the Wuhan virus and other communicable diseases after the isolation is ended. This could cause an unexpected flood of otherwise avoidable, seriously ill patients into hospitals when the isolation period is ended....
(Audio is extremely low)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLV...ature=emb_logo
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Old 04-25-2020, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures

The extreme measures taken would have been justified if a 10% population mortality was predicted. Appr 3.5 million. The projection was no where near that and the actuality was even lower. Panic and press hysteria has created much of the problem here.
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Old 04-25-2020, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
These two men, who have been on the front lines for very long hours every day treating Wuhan flu patients, note, from the evidence they present, that the chance of dying from this virus is actually very low and that it is in fact not much worse than the seasonal flu.
The bold text is demonstrably false. Including that absurd statement in an article that claims to be based on data and science is absurd.
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Old 04-25-2020, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures

Adding this graphic to illustrate my previous comment. Anyone claiming that this is comparable to or “not much worse than” the seasonal flu is either an idiot or a liar.

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Old 04-25-2020, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures

Sigh. The number of deaths in a few weeks means absolutely nothing by itself. What number of those deaths were actually caused by covid-19? And not just attributed to it? What number of total infected, not just identified infected exist? Other questions are also brought up. If a person has both influenza and Covid-19, which one is listed as cause? Does a virus that has a sharp short lived spike represent itself as more deadly than a long term spread out kill rate from another virus? Does the total death rate rate from Covid exceed a percentage of the population that justifies extreme measures for control, or just a case of government overreach and hysteria?
Until those questions are answered, anyone denouncing the questions can be presumed to want the hysteria and panic to continue.
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Old 04-25-2020, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures

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Sigh. The number of deaths in a few weeks means absolutely nothing by itself. What number of those deaths were actually caused by covid-19? And not just attributed to it? What number of total infected, not just identified infected exist? Other questions are also brought up. If a person has both influenza and Covid-19, which one is listed as cause? Does a virus that has a sharp short lived spike represent itself as more deadly than a long term spread out kill rate from another virus? Does the total death rate rate from Covid exceed a percentage of the population that justifies extreme measures for control, or just a case of government overreach and hysteria?
Until those questions are answered, anyone denouncing the questions can be presumed to want the hysteria and panic to continue.
As I have pointed out elsewhere, the total deaths currently attributed to COVID-19 is a significant undercount, because in many jurisdictions the total numbers of deaths over the last month are significantly higher than typical, even removing those attributed to the virus. New York City has the starkest numbers, but the same trend is being seen elsewhere. In NYC, the total number of deaths reported in a normal 30-day period from mid-March to mid-April is around 5,000. This year, there were over 18,000 deaths in NYC for that period, about 10,000 of which are for COVID-19. That still leaves 3,000 extra deaths. Even if you ignore the 10,000 COVID-19 deaths, that’s still the highest death total in NYC over a 30-day period, by far, since 9/11.
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Old 04-25-2020, 01:06 PM
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Default Re: 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
As I have pointed out elsewhere, the total deaths currently attributed to COVID-19 is a significant undercount, because in many jurisdictions the total numbers of deaths over the last month are significantly higher than typical, even removing those attributed to the virus. New York City has the starkest numbers, but the same trend is being seen elsewhere. In NYC, the total number of deaths reported in a normal 30-day period from mid-March to mid-April is around 5,000. This year, there were over 18,000 deaths in NYC for that period, about 10,000 of which are for COVID-19. That still leaves 3,000 extra deaths. Even if you ignore the 10,000 COVID-19 deaths, that’s still the highest death total in NYC over a 30-day period, by far, since 9/11.
Actually. Covid-19 deaths are being overcounted. A 30 day death period is not a significant statistical factor for any disease.
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Old 04-25-2020, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures

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Originally Posted by loboloco View Post
Actually. Covid-19 deaths are being overcounted. A 30 day death period is not a significant statistical factor for any disease.
Sorry, but this is wrong. They are very clearly undercounted. As I noted, total numbers of deaths are up significantly in many areas. Overall mortality rates are fairly predictable and do not vary significantly from year to year. If 5,000 people (plus or minus a few hundred) die in NYC almost every year over a specific period, you are not going to see that number almost quadrupled without some sort of sui generis event or cause. Spikes of tens of thousands of extra deaths (far more than the current numbers attributed to the virus) don’t just happen. Unless you have a plausible explanation for those tens of thousands of extra, unanticipated deaths, the obvious conclusion is that it is due to this virus.

And this isn’t just some back-of-the envelope speculation. This is one lang-standing method that public health experts use to estimate the numbers of people’s killed by a particular outbreak (by comparing the actual total numbers of deaths in a region with the expected numbers in the absence of the virus).
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Old 04-25-2020, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures

the linked page contains maps charts of the virus with number.
https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest

40 of the 50 states have less than 500 fatalities.
the lock-down order make no sense
Alaska has 9 deaths but it's has lock-down order. WHY?!

Sweden had no lock-down At all and they've had 2000+ deaths so far.
the country has apx 10 million people.
by comparison
Portugal with lock-down has apx 10 million people as well and they've had 800+ deaths
Belgium with lock-down has apx 11 million people and they've had 6500+ deaths
Switzerland with lock-down has apx 10 million people and they've had 1500+ deaths

I just have to wonder how this relatively small difference in death rates is becasue of lock-downs. Or rationally justifies lock-downs and extreme measures of nations.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 04-25-2020 at 04:47 PM..
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Old 04-25-2020, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: 2 California ER Covid doctors science/data-based questioning of extreme measures

Suddenly, Pennsylvania reduced their covid-19 reported deaths due to reporting data inaccuracy.
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