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Health, Wellness, Sex and Body Discuss Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year at the General Discussion; They don't want my worn out parts so no worries about that. They will make decisions down the road a ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2014, 11:37 AM
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Default Re: Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every yea

They don't want my worn out parts so no worries about that. They will make decisions down the road a few years that will be cost driven. Count on that!
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every yea

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Originally Posted by Jackass master View Post
They don't want my worn out parts so no worries about that. They will make decisions down the road a few years that will be cost driven. Count on that!
Cost driven...
Like the decisions made by the insurance / healthcare companies....

Maybe I just need to dig up that thread about how many people in this country die each year due to lack of healthcare coverage. Along with the threads to the insurance company horror stories where it's obvious that they're also making "cost driven" decisions.

One of the things that boggles me about such complaints is how people refuse to acknowledge the problem where it exists today.
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every yea

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Cost driven...
Like the decisions made by the insurance / healthcare companies....

Maybe I just need to dig up that thread about how many people in this country die each year due to lack of healthcare coverage. Along with the threads to the insurance company horror stories where it's obvious that they're also making "cost driven" decisions.

One of the things that boggles me about such complaints is how people refuse to acknowledge the problem where it exists today.
Ohhhh try financing a heart transplant. It a serious concern. Odds are one will have a left ventricular assist device a pump that takes over for your heart is 300k. The transplant is one million. The anti rejection drugs are 2 to 3 k per month.....I could list more like doctor visits blood tests etc,,,,,
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every yea

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You're quoting an individual "campaigner", who is most likely being paid to achieve a political agenda, to speak for thousands / millions of elderly.

The article actually has nothing to do with socialized health care, and instead deals with LEGALIZED EUTHENASIA. But of course, you misrepresent the article to your convenient goals.

Quite frankly, MANY people in the U.S. carry cards. Cards that say they are willing to donate organs. Cards that list their medical issues. etc, etc.
Doesn't mean that the people involved are "fearful" that a hospital will steal their kidney at the drop of a hat.
one campaigner?
from the article....
" He mentioned the comments of Lord McColl made in the House of Lords that in the Netherlands, where euthanasia has been officially legalised and regulated since 2002, doctors found the cases increasingly easy to carry out while “many elderly people in the Netherlands are so fearful of euthanasia that they carry cards around with them saying that they do not want it”.

This was a reference to the Dutch Patients’ Association (NPV), which has 70,000 members of whom at least 6,000 have “living will declarations” stating that they do not want euthanasia if they are taken into hospital or a nursing home. "


I'm not trying to make stuff up here, so please don't try to dismiss the facts either.
fearful and taken to the gov't hospital and unrequested doctor assisted euthanasia
is what the whole thread is about.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:12 PM
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Post Re: Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every yea

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Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
one campaigner?
from the article....
" He mentioned the comments of Lord McColl made in the House of Lords that in the Netherlands, where euthanasia has been officially legalised and regulated since 2002, doctors found the cases increasingly easy to carry out while “many elderly people in the Netherlands are so fearful of euthanasia that they carry cards around with them saying that they do not want it”.

This was a reference to the Dutch Patients’ Association (NPV), which has 70,000 members of whom at least 6,000 have “living will declarations” stating that they do not want euthanasia if they are taken into hospital or a nursing home. "

I'm not trying to make stuff up here, so please don't try to dismiss the facts either.
fearful and taken to the gov't hospital and unrequested doctor assisted euthanasia
is what the whole thread is about.
You're actually citing the creation of living wills as a justification for claiming "fear".
So they make a living will, and to you that means they are fearful that a doctor will kill them.
There are tons of reasons why people create living wills. Some of them to explicitly denote they want a DNR situation.
The article provides NO distinction on the reasoning for the living wills.
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Old 07-30-2014, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every yea

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You're actually citing the creation of living wills as a justification for claiming "fear".
So they make a living will, and to you that means they are fearful that a doctor will kill them.
There are tons of reasons why people create living wills. Some of them to explicitly denote they want a DNR situation.
The article provides NO distinction on the reasoning for the living wills.
tons of reasons... yeah... here's one.. in the article no less.
"stating that they do not want euthanasia"

why would they have to specify that?
because they are concerned... afraid they will do it AGAINST their WILL, and WITHOUT Their CONSENT. so they feel compelled to explicitly TELL them NOT TO.

c'mon found get honest here.
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:34 PM
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Post Re: Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every yea

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Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
tons of reasons... yeah... here's one.. in the article no less.
"stating that they do not want euthanasia"
why would they have to specify that?
because they are concerned... afraid they will do it AGAINST their WILL, and WITHOUT Their CONSENT. so they feel compelled to explicitly TELL them NOT TO.
c'mon found get honest here.
I am being honest here.
YOU are not being honest. You're claiming to know their motives for specifying a medical choice, when you have no actual knowledge of their motivation.

Living Wills state a variety of stuff. Conditions that are to be followed for medical care in case of incapacitation.

YOU are presenting a claim regarding a claimed MOTIVATION OF FEAR regarding the living wills.
Just because they state they don't want "euthanasia" DOES NOT mean they have any real fear that the government will ride in and stab them if they stub their toe.

It's simply the patients decisions established for what type of care they want.
The article, in full describes it simply as:
This was a reference to the Dutch Patients’ Association (NPV), which has 70,000 members of whom at least 6,000 have “living will declarations” stating that they do not want euthanasia if they are taken into hospital or a nursing home.
Other Dutch people, however, make written declarations of their “will to die”.
YOU are making the leap from "don't want euthanasia" to "elderly fear socialized healthcare killings".
They are simply selecting an option. That's all there is to this.


To put it another way, you realize that there are TONS of living wills in the U.S. And euthanasia is not legal here (with some exceptions).
If the U.S. living wills state they want to live (i.e. do not pull the plug), do you think that automatically means they're afraid our government is going to kill them?

The problem is you're taking a medical decision and applying hyperbolic emotion to it.
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Last edited by foundit66; 07-30-2014 at 05:37 PM..
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