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Old 08-05-2019, 01:18 PM
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Default "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Faced with two mass shootings within hours of each other it's time to take a serious look at possible gun control measures that will reduce the number of deaths and injuries associated with firearms. Nothing is perfect but we can reduce firearm violence with some pragmatic measures.

I've quickly put together the following ten measures for consideration. None of them violate the 2nd Amendment and some already exist around the country.

1, Universal background checks. This measure is supported by over 90% of the American people and includes the support of most gun owners.

To go along with #1 I also propose the following:

2. Private access to the FBI NICS database. Currently in states that have a background check the individuals must go to a FFL or to local law enforcement and pay a fee to obtain the background check because only FFL's and law enforcement have access to the FBI NICS database. Make it available online so that private parties can use it and document that the background check was performed.

3. Criminal/civil liability for prohibited transfer. Once there's a universal background check requirement there's no excuse for anyone to transfer a firearm to someone on the FBI NICS database at the time of transfer.

4. Law enforcement for failed background checks. Instant and automated notification for law enforcement to investigate failed background checks. Out of more than a million cases of individuals failing a background check the number of times that law enforcement investigated is almost zero. The attempted purchase by a prohibited person is (or should be) a crime. If the person was wrongfully blocked by the FBI NICS database then law enforcement can correct that. If they are attempting to unlawfully acquire a firearm then they can be arrested and prosecuted.

5. Red Flag Laws. Red flag laws allow the courts to intervene in cases where a person has demonstrated behavior that threatens themselves or others with firearm violence. It provides for interested parties including law enforcement, family members, mental health professionals, and others that have knowledge of the person to bring the matter before a court. The court hears the case and, based upon the testimony and evidence, can temporarily impound the firearms. Due process of the law is followed in these cases avoiding any infringements upon the rights of the firearm owner. Note: these are temporary court orders that expire and I would recommend a court review of the order prior to it's expiration to ensure that the reason no longer exists for the impoundment of the firearms.

6. Court review of restraining orders. Domestic violence often results in the court issuing a temporary restraining order addressing firearms. Often these are for six months and numerous cases have resulted in the person obtaining a firearm and committing murder as soon as the restraining order expired. There should be a review by the court before the expiration date to see if it's now safe to lift the order.

7. Licensing of firearm collectors. Anyone owning five or more firearms should be considered collector as opposed to a simple owner of firearms. These individuals should be licensed owners and the license renewed periodically.

8. Licensing and registration of semiautomatic rifles. The semiautomatic rifle that fires a high velocity projectile is the most lethal of all firearms in both the type of wounds created and the number of victims per minute. This requirement is not based upon appearance but instead is based upon the functionality of the firearm. Excluded should be the .22 cal semiautomatic rifle because it doesn't fire a high velocity round. The .22 caliber exception also provides a means for those that just love to "burn ammunition" to have all of the fun they want.

9. Magazine capacity limitations. A limit of five rounds for removable magazines used in semiautomatic firearms should be adopted. Exceptions should be made for licensed firearms collectors and licensing provided non-collectors that want to own higher capacity magazines. Magazines for .22 cal ammunition would also be exempt from this limitation. Five rounds are adequate for hunting and competition (sports) shooting events. For events requiring more than five rounds a .22 caliber firearm can be used.

10. Secured firearms law. This measure is to prevent the access to firearms by minors in the household. It's only applicable if minors reside in the home to prevent them from taking a firearm owned by the parent(s) and using in for illegal purposes.

Vote for what you support or could support and comment on what you don't support. Multiple selections are allowed.
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

I have a better idea. How about we start enforcing laws already on the books?

As for me, the founders gave us the ultimate solution to such tragedies - The 2nd Amendment. In these 2 tragedies, the killers took advantage of a liberal fantasy, Gun Free zones. The completely ignored the signs posted to keep people like them out and brought weapons to a group of people that were abiding by the rules and not carrying weapons. Had there been armed citizens present, the crime may not have been committed and if so, the body count would be extremely less.
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
1, Universal background checks. This measure is supported by over 90% of the American people and includes the support of most gun owners.
The polls always get this wrong due to NOT pointing out one specific detail...

...that the information provided for your gun transactions are government kept and can be used against you...

Don't believe me?...A newspaper in New York state just did EXACTLY that!...

Newspaper sparks outrage for publishing names, addresses of gun permit holders

Now if a newspaper can obtain permit information WITHOUT universal background checks, just imagine what information they could obtain (including illegal leaks by Lefty government employees) WITH universal background checks...
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Old 08-05-2019, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Faced with two mass shootings within hours of each other it's time to take a serious look at possible gun control measures that will reduce the number of deaths and injuries associated with firearms. Nothing is perfect but we can reduce firearm violence with some pragmatic measures.

I've quickly put together the following ten measures for consideration. None of them violate the 2nd Amendment and some already exist around the country.

1, Universal background checks. This measure is supported by over 90% of the American people and includes the support of most gun owners.

To go along with #1 I also propose the following:

2. Private access to the FBI NICS database. Currently in states that have a background check the individuals must go to a FFL or to local law enforcement and pay a fee to obtain the background check because only FFL's and law enforcement have access to the FBI NICS database. Make it available online so that private parties can use it and document that the background check was performed.

3. Criminal/civil liability for prohibited transfer. Once there's a universal background check requirement there's no excuse for anyone to transfer a firearm to someone on the FBI NICS database at the time of transfer.

4. Law enforcement for failed background checks. Instant and automated notification for law enforcement to investigate failed background checks. Out of more than a million cases of individuals failing a background check the number of times that law enforcement investigated is almost zero. The attempted purchase by a prohibited person is (or should be) a crime. If the person was wrongfully blocked by the FBI NICS database then law enforcement can correct that. If they are attempting to unlawfully acquire a firearm then they can be arrested and prosecuted.

5. Red Flag Laws. Red flag laws allow the courts to intervene in cases where a person has demonstrated behavior that threatens themselves or others with firearm violence. It provides for interested parties including law enforcement, family members, mental health professionals, and others that have knowledge of the person to bring the matter before a court. The court hears the case and, based upon the testimony and evidence, can temporarily impound the firearms. Due process of the law is followed in these cases avoiding any infringements upon the rights of the firearm owner. Note: these are temporary court orders that expire and I would recommend a court review of the order prior to it's expiration to ensure that the reason no longer exists for the impoundment of the firearms.

6. Court review of restraining orders. Domestic violence often results in the court issuing a temporary restraining order addressing firearms. Often these are for six months and numerous cases have resulted in the person obtaining a firearm and committing murder as soon as the restraining order expired. There should be a review by the court before the expiration date to see if it's now safe to lift the order.

7. Licensing of firearm collectors. Anyone owning five or more firearms should be considered collector as opposed to a simple owner of firearms. These individuals should be licensed owners and the license renewed periodically.

8. Licensing and registration of semiautomatic rifles. The semiautomatic rifle that fires a high velocity projectile is the most lethal of all firearms in both the type of wounds created and the number of victims per minute. This requirement is not based upon appearance but instead is based upon the functionality of the firearm. Excluded should be the .22 cal semiautomatic rifle because it doesn't fire a high velocity round. The .22 caliber exception also provides a means for those that just love to "burn ammunition" to have all of the fun they want.

9. Magazine capacity limitations. A limit of five rounds for removable magazines used in semiautomatic firearms should be adopted. Exceptions should be made for licensed firearms collectors and licensing provided non-collectors that want to own higher capacity magazines. Magazines for .22 cal ammunition would also be exempt from this limitation. Five rounds are adequate for hunting and competition (sports) shooting events. For events requiring more than five rounds a .22 caliber firearm can be used.

10. Secured firearms law. This measure is to prevent the access to firearms by minors in the household. It's only applicable if minors reside in the home to prevent them from taking a firearm owned by the parent(s) and using in for illegal purposes.

Vote for what you support or could support and comment on what you don't support. Multiple selections are allowed.
You forgot 11--Shove those proposals where the sun doesn't shine on the proposer's body.

How about, civilian or law enforcement people, shoot the next SOB who decides to go psycho in another of those stupid "Gun Free zones?
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
I have a better idea. How about we start enforcing laws already on the books?

As for me, the founders gave us the ultimate solution to such tragedies - The 2nd Amendment. In these 2 tragedies, the killers took advantage of a liberal fantasy, Gun Free zones. The completely ignored the signs posted to keep people like them out and brought weapons to a group of people that were abiding by the rules and not carrying weapons. Had there been armed citizens present, the crime may not have been committed and if so, the body count would be extremely less.
What laws on the books. The ones that state it's a crime to use a firearm to murder someone that can't be enforced until after the murder takes place?

Armed citizens normally carry their firearms concealed and would not represent any threat that would cause a mass murderer to not open fire. These armed citizens are also untrained and represent a significant threat to other innocent people in the chaos of a mass shooting. If you have three then two may decide the third person with a gun out is the shooter and kill them or may kill innocent bystanders by mistake.

To my knowledge neither of these were gun free zones and in Dayton and a law enforcement officer was right there and killed the shooter in a matter of seconds after the attack began. In those few seconds the shooter fired at least 41 rounds at a rate faster than one per second resulting in the deaths and wounding of over two dozen people.

We've also been told by law enforcement that armed citizens make the response by law enforcement much more difficult and slows them down. They don't know if someone with a gun out is the shooter or an innocent person. They must stop to evaluate the situation before proceeding. Every second of delay can result in more innocent victims dying.
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Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
You forgot 11--Shove those proposals where the sun doesn't shine on the proposer's body.

How about, civilian or law enforcement people, shoot the next SOB who decides to go psycho in another of those stupid "Gun Free zones?
Walmart is not a gun free zone and I doubt that the district in Dayton was either.

Yes, law enforcement or even a civilian can shoot the mass murderer and once again the morning headlines will read "20 people killed and dozens wounded" the next day. That doesn't accomplish very much in reducing the number of people dying and being wounded by firearms in America.

Now, how about a suggestion that will take the same shooting situation, because of changes in firearms regulation, but where the headlines might read, "6 people killed and 13 wounded" instead.
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Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
These armed citizens are also untrained and represent a significant threat to other innocent people in the chaos of a mass shooting.
It's bad enough when people blame the victim, but now we're playing "blame the hero"?...
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Walmart is not a gun free zone and I doubt that the district in Dayton was either.

Yes, law enforcement or even a civilian can shoot the mass murderer and once again the morning headlines will read "20 people killed and dozens wounded" the next day. That doesn't accomplish very much in reducing the number of people dying and being wounded by firearms in America.

Now, how about a suggestion that will take the same shooting situation, because of changes in firearms regulation, but where the headlines might read, "6 people killed and 13 wounded" instead.
Prove that Walmart was in a Gun Free zone. I can have a business also, where I allow armed customers in, but if I lease at a property owned by some anti-gun clown, I have to follow his policy. Also, another thing about being armed, and you are with your family, which includes youngsters or very elderly. You say you are a combat veteran. Would you leave them to fend for themselves so you can take out the psycho, or would you break your bones taking them to safety first? And then, what makes you think the police at the cordon will allow you back into the danger zone to confront the psycho?

In a million years, and with a million more stupid, anal retentive gun laws, the psychos will not sweat one drop worrying about how they are affected. Your stupid five bullets per magazine, and no "assault" firearms ever suggestion will not deter a single person bent on murdering as many people as he can.

Only law-abiding citizens will obey your stupid suggestions, if they become law.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
What laws on the books. The ones that state it's a crime to use a firearm to murder someone that can't be enforced until after the murder takes place?
It's a crime to murder someone with or without a weapon. You focusing on the gun is simply delusional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Armed citizens normally carry their firearms concealed and would not represent any threat that would cause a mass murderer to not open fire. These armed citizens are also untrained and represent a significant threat to other innocent people in the chaos of a mass shooting. If you have three then two may decide the third person with a gun out is the shooter and kill them or may kill innocent bystanders by mistake.
I would rather chance that than being in a gun free zone without any means to fight back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
To my knowledge neither of these were gun free zones and in Dayton and a law enforcement officer was right there and killed the shooter in a matter of seconds after the attack began. In those few seconds the shooter fired at least 41 rounds at a rate faster than one per second resulting in the deaths and wounding of over two dozen people.
It's a good thing we know not to take your word for anything on this forum. Local news reports here in Ohio state that the shooting took place in a open container district and as such is governed by the law that restricts guns in areas where alcohol is being sold an consumed.

Also, the shooting in Texas happened at a property owned by Simon Malls:

Quote:
Simon Malls, the operators of the Cielo Vista Mall, the scene of the El Paso shooting, bans guns on their property even though Texans are allowed to open and carry concealed.
https://townhall.com/columnists/kevi...arget-n2551139

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
We've also been told by law enforcement that armed citizens make the response by law enforcement much more difficult and slows them down. They don't know if someone with a gun out is the shooter or an innocent person. They must stop to evaluate the situation before proceeding. Every second of delay can result in more innocent victims dying.
The difference is that when law enforcement shows up, those law abiding citizens drop their firearms and comply with LEO's orders.

The fact is that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Remember the church shooting in Texas last year? What stopped that guy? It wasn't the police. It was a neighbor with an AR-15.

How about this one?
Quote:
A woman pulled a gun from her glove compartment and shot a carjacker in the head as he drove away in her SUV with her and her two toddlers inside in North Texas.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ide/760671002/

Face it, the best protection against crazy people with guns wanting to kill people is for those people to be able to defend themselves with a guns. The more people carrying guns, the better the odds that the killer will fail.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Faced with two mass shootings within hours of each other it's time to take a serious look at possible gun control measures that will reduce the number of deaths and injuries associated with firearms. Nothing is perfect but we can reduce firearm violence with some pragmatic measures.

I've quickly put together the following ten measures for consideration. None of them violate the 2nd Amendment and some already exist around the country.

1, Universal background checks. This measure is supported by over 90% of the American people and includes the support of most gun owners.

To go along with #1 I also propose the following:

2. Private access to the FBI NICS database. Currently in states that have a background check the individuals must go to a FFL or to local law enforcement and pay a fee to obtain the background check because only FFL's and law enforcement have access to the FBI NICS database. Make it available online so that private parties can use it and document that the background check was performed.

3. Criminal/civil liability for prohibited transfer. Once there's a universal background check requirement there's no excuse for anyone to transfer a firearm to someone on the FBI NICS database at the time of transfer.

4. Law enforcement for failed background checks. Instant and automated notification for law enforcement to investigate failed background checks. Out of more than a million cases of individuals failing a background check the number of times that law enforcement investigated is almost zero. The attempted purchase by a prohibited person is (or should be) a crime. If the person was wrongfully blocked by the FBI NICS database then law enforcement can correct that. If they are attempting to unlawfully acquire a firearm then they can be arrested and prosecuted.

5. Red Flag Laws. Red flag laws allow the courts to intervene in cases where a person has demonstrated behavior that threatens themselves or others with firearm violence. It provides for interested parties including law enforcement, family members, mental health professionals, and others that have knowledge of the person to bring the matter before a court. The court hears the case and, based upon the testimony and evidence, can temporarily impound the firearms. Due process of the law is followed in these cases avoiding any infringements upon the rights of the firearm owner. Note: these are temporary court orders that expire and I would recommend a court review of the order prior to it's expiration to ensure that the reason no longer exists for the impoundment of the firearms.

6. Court review of restraining orders. Domestic violence often results in the court issuing a temporary restraining order addressing firearms. Often these are for six months and numerous cases have resulted in the person obtaining a firearm and committing murder as soon as the restraining order expired. There should be a review by the court before the expiration date to see if it's now safe to lift the order.

7. Licensing of firearm collectors. Anyone owning five or more firearms should be considered collector as opposed to a simple owner of firearms. These individuals should be licensed owners and the license renewed periodically.

8. Licensing and registration of semiautomatic rifles. The semiautomatic rifle that fires a high velocity projectile is the most lethal of all firearms in both the type of wounds created and the number of victims per minute. This requirement is not based upon appearance but instead is based upon the functionality of the firearm. Excluded should be the .22 cal semiautomatic rifle because it doesn't fire a high velocity round. The .22 caliber exception also provides a means for those that just love to "burn ammunition" to have all of the fun they want.

9. Magazine capacity limitations. A limit of five rounds for removable magazines used in semiautomatic firearms should be adopted. Exceptions should be made for licensed firearms collectors and licensing provided non-collectors that want to own higher capacity magazines. Magazines for .22 cal ammunition would also be exempt from this limitation. Five rounds are adequate for hunting and competition (sports) shooting events. For events requiring more than five rounds a .22 caliber firearm can be used.

10. Secured firearms law. This measure is to prevent the access to firearms by minors in the household. It's only applicable if minors reside in the home to prevent them from taking a firearm owned by the parent(s) and using in for illegal purposes.

Vote for what you support or could support and comment on what you don't support. Multiple selections are allowed.
besides the two I voted for, it is ridiculous not to straight-up ban ar15s and ak47 type guns that shoot multiple rounds rapidly. congress needs to get off the teet of the NRA and do this.
also fine and jail people who remanufacture guns to make them the equivalent of these dangerous weapons.
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