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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals at the General Forum; Originally Posted by ShivaTD I've quickly put together the following ten measures for consideration. None of them violate the 2nd ...

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Old 08-07-2019, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I've quickly put together the following ten measures for consideration. None of them violate the 2nd Amendment and some already exist around the country.

1, Universal background checks. This measure is supported by over 90% of the American people and includes the support of most gun owners.

To go along with #1 I also propose the following:

blah
blah
blah
blah
et cetera

Oh! Good news! The cartels have advised their black market dealers to enroll in the "enhanced" universal background check program that the anti-gun morons are now working on. [/PARODY]
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:43 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
According to recent SCOTUS ruling firearms can be regulated.
It is my business if you own a mean dog that runs the neighborhood. regs will be put on that too.
1. the purpose of the 2nd amendment is so that average citizens can have military grade firearms for the purpose of getting together to defend against invasions and tyrannical governments. So the idea government can tell you what firer arm you can and can't own is ludicrous and flies in the face of logic.

2. You don't have a right to own a dog.You do have a right to own firearms whether they be military grade or civilian.

3.Its none of your business how I chose to exercise my constitutional rights.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
1, Universal background checks. This measure is supported by over 90% of the American people and includes the support of most gun owners.

To go along with #1 I also propose the following:

2. Private access to the FBI NICS database. Currently in states that have a background check the individuals must go to a FFL or to local law enforcement and pay a fee to obtain the background check because only FFL's and law enforcement have access to the FBI NICS database. Make it available online so that private parties can use it and document that the background check was performed.
I think private access to NICS is a good idea, as long as it is rigidly assured that the gov't can't keep records of transactions. President Clinton tried to use NICS as a backdoor registration and got his hand slapped by the courts.
That being said UBC's are unenforceable since there is no transaction record.
Also, polls are pretty worthless in general, but one that says 90% of Americans agree on anything is highly questionable. You couldn't get 90% of Americans to agree that puppy beats should be illegal.

Quote:
3. Criminal/civil liability for prohibited transfer. Once there's a universal background check requirement there's no excuse for anyone to transfer a firearm to someone on the FBI NICS database at the time of transfer.
It's already a crime to knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person.

Quote:
4. Law enforcement for failed background checks. Instant and automated notification for law enforcement to investigate failed background checks. Out of more than a million cases of individuals failing a background check the number of times that law enforcement investigated is almost zero. The attempted purchase by a prohibited person is (or should be) a crime. If the person was wrongfully blocked by the FBI NICS database then law enforcement can correct that. If they are attempting to unlawfully acquire a firearm then they can be arrested and prosecuted.
Nope, the only way law enforcement could act on a failed background check is if a record of the transaction was kept.

Quote:
5. Red Flag Laws. Red flag laws allow the courts to intervene in cases where a person has demonstrated behavior that threatens themselves or others with firearm violence. It provides for interested parties including law enforcement, family members, mental health professionals, and others that have knowledge of the person to bring the matter before a court. The court hears the case and, based upon the testimony and evidence, can temporarily impound the firearms. Due process of the law is followed in these cases avoiding any infringements upon the rights of the firearm owner. Note: these are temporary court orders that expire and I would recommend a court review of the order prior to it's expiration to ensure that the reason no longer exists for the impoundment of the firearms.
While this is a good idea in theory, we have to tread very lightly here. You are talking about potentially confiscating property and infringing upon the rights of people who have broken no laws. Essentially it would have to be proven that the person is a danger to others, tough to do if they haven't actually done anything.
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6. Court review of restraining orders. Domestic violence often results in the court issuing a temporary restraining order addressing firearms. Often these are for six months and numerous cases have resulted in the person obtaining a firearm and committing murder as soon as the restraining order expired. There should be a review by the court before the expiration date to see if it's now safe to lift the order.
Before this there needs to be much tougher restrictions on when a TRO can be issued. My dog could go to court and get a TRO from a lot of judges.

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7. Licensing of firearm collectors. Anyone owning five or more firearms should be considered collector as opposed to a simple owner of firearms. These individuals should be licensed owners and the license renewed periodically.
Not just no, hell no. The government has no business knowing how many or what types of firearms I own. Would you support a license for those that attend more than one church? Have more than one online device?
Registration and/or licensing are complete non-starters.

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8. Licensing and registration of semiautomatic rifles. The semiautomatic rifle that fires a high velocity projectile is the most lethal of all firearms in both the type of wounds created and the number of victims per minute. This requirement is not based upon appearance but instead is based upon the functionality of the firearm. Excluded should be the .22 cal semiautomatic rifle because it doesn't fire a high velocity round. The .22 caliber exception also provides a means for those that just love to "burn ammunition" to have all of the fun they want.
Not only is this a non-starter like #7, you should probably be aware that the AR-15 is a ".22 cal semiautomatic rifle".

Quote:
9. Magazine capacity limitations. A limit of five rounds for removable magazines used in semiautomatic firearms should be adopted. Exceptions should be made for licensed firearms collectors and licensing provided non-collectors that want to own higher capacity magazines. Magazines for .22 cal ammunition would also be exempt from this limitation. Five rounds are adequate for hunting and competition (sports) shooting events. For events requiring more than five rounds a .22 caliber firearm can be used.
Not only is this suggestion pointless when it comes to any type of public safety. It shows a lack of knowledge concerning firearms and shooting sports.

Quote:
10. Secured firearms law. This measure is to prevent the access to firearms by minors in the household. It's only applicable if minors reside in the home to prevent them from taking a firearm owned by the parent(s) and using in for illegal purposes.
That would make it difficult for the minors to use them for legal purposes when the parents are not home. Non-starter.

The main problem with your suggestions is that if already in place none of them would have had any effect on the majority of mass shootings. So, all they do is curtail the rights of people we are not worried about anyway.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

In regards to Shiva's list, anywhere were it mentions guns, replace that with speech and see how many people agree. As long as we're looking to curtail people's 2nd Amendment rights, why not go after the 1st Amendment while we're at it?
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
In regards to Shiva's list, anywhere were it mentions guns, replace that with speech and see how many people agree. As long as we're looking to curtail people's 2nd Amendment rights, why not go after the 1st Amendment while we're at it?
The thing with anti-2nd amendment trash is that they don't think we should have the right to keep and bear arms. For years they were trying to tell us that you needed to be part of a state run militia to have a gun. Then they tried to the living document bull**** with the bill of rights as though that somehow gave them the right to blatantly misinterpret the bill of rights to say something it doesn't. Now after Heller vs DC they are trying to tell us the 2nd amendment doesn't grant us the right to own guns that a militia would need and use.
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
rapid multiple round machines are not warranted in any situation you may be in.
Again, the second is not about your opinion. But I don't know what a multiple round machine is. Do you mean machine guns? Or magazines? The first is already heavily regulated. Takes about a year and at least $200. Not since the St Valentines day massacre has one been used in a mass murder.

If you mean magazines, You're incorrect.
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Sad news for you, redd. The government already has your information. If you were picked up for vagrancy in 1962 in some podunk town in Alabama before the internet, the FBI still has your record. Don't ask me how but they do so background checks won't change anything there.
The government doesn't know how many weapons I have. What kind they are, how many magazines, cartridges, or where they are stored. IMO it's a good idea to keep it that way.
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Old 08-08-2019, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
The thing with anti-2nd amendment trash is that they don't think we should have the right to keep and bear arms. For years they were trying to tell us that you needed to be part of a state run militia to have a gun. Then they tried to the living document bull**** with the bill of rights as though that somehow gave them the right to blatantly misinterpret the bill of rights to say something it doesn't. Now after Heller vs DC they are trying to tell us the 2nd amendment doesn't grant us the right to own guns that a militia would need and use.
bold italics underlined mine



Those comedians take the cake with that gem. Imagine a tyrant taking control of the nation. Where is the militia? If they think the National Guard is the militia, they will soon see that it has fallen under the authority of the dictator. He might arm them with airsoft rifles, so that they can restore the nation to a free state. That type of stupidity is rampant among anti-gun people.
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
bold italics underlined mine



Those comedians take the cake with that gem. Imagine a tyrant taking control of the nation. Where is the militia? If they think the National Guard is the militia, they will soon see that it has fallen under the authority of the dictator. He might arm them with airsoft rifles, so that they can restore the nation to a free state. That type of stupidity is rampant among anti-gun people.
Yes, the left is terrible at learning history. The militia is US. Those of us in the country that love our country and will take up arms to defend it. And the only way to take up arms is to have possession of them. And I don't mean single shot .22's, but military grade weapons capable of going toe to toe with the forces deployed by a tyrant.

The Founder's understood what was at stake and how those in power would work to retain and consolidate power to the point of tyranny. That is the purpose of the 2nd Amendment. It is the strength of the militia that keeps our government in check. No wonder the left wants to disarm the people as they know the armed populace stands between them and their dreams.
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Yes, the left is terrible at learning history. The militia is US. Those of us in the country that love our country and will take up arms to defend it. And the only way to take up arms is to have possession of them. And I don't mean single shot .22's, but military grade weapons capable of going toe to toe with the forces deployed by a tyrant.

The Founder's understood what was at stake and how those in power would work to retain and consolidate power to the point of tyranny. That is the purpose of the 2nd Amendment. It is the strength of the militia that keeps our government in check. No wonder the left wants to disarm the people as they know the armed populace stands between them and their dreams.
As you have stated, those on the left have a very poor grasp of US history, the intentions of our Founding Fathers and a lack of reading comprehension when interpreting the meaning of the 2nd Amendment. I honestly don't believe this is fixable... these leftist pukes are willfully ignorant.
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