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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals at the General Forum; A correction first. In post #8 above, the first sentence in bold was supposed to state, " Prove that Walmart ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

A correction first. In post #8 above, the first sentence in bold was supposed to state, "Prove that Walmart was NOT in a Gun Free zone".

As for Number 8 of the silly proposals up above,

8. Licensing and registration of semiautomatic rifles. The semiautomatic rifle that fires a high velocity projectile is the most lethal of all firearms in both the type of wounds created and the number of victims per minute. This requirement is not based upon appearance but instead is based upon the functionality of the firearm. Excluded should be the .22 cal semiautomatic rifle because it doesn't fire a high velocity round. The .22 caliber exception also provides a means for those that just love to "burn ammunition" to have all of the fun they want.

I cannot believe that crap came from a combat veteran. Instead, it looks like some video game armchair combat "veteran" pulled that out of his ass.

For further information, I am against every single one of those proposals, and I say to the above "combat veteran" and to everybody else concerned that it is not anybody's damned business what type of firearm or number of them I have.
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Old 08-06-2019, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
The polls always get this wrong due to NOT pointing out one specific detail...

...that the information provided for your gun transactions are government kept and can be used against you...

Don't believe me?...A newspaper in New York state just did EXACTLY that!...

Newspaper sparks outrage for publishing names, addresses of gun permit holders

Now if a newspaper can obtain permit information WITHOUT universal background checks, just imagine what information they could obtain (including illegal leaks by Lefty government employees) WITH universal background checks...
The story addresses concealed weapons permits and not background checks. The government retains information on these permits because they need to be able to verify the authenticity and they also notify the holders when it's time to renew the permit. Permits are issued by state and local law enforcement offices, not by the federal government, and there are no documents issued with a background check.

I mentioned on private access to the FBI NICS database the search should allow printing of a receipt for the transaction as proof for running the check. Background check information is stored for a limited amount of time and then erased from what I understand.

If not then change the law to protect privacy but the federal government already knows more about you than you can possibly imagine. People that are afraid of the federal government need to get a life.
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Old 08-06-2019, 12:24 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
The polls always get this wrong due to NOT pointing out one specific detail...

...that the information provided for your gun transactions are government kept and can be used against you...

Don't believe me?...A newspaper in New York state just did EXACTLY that!...

Newspaper sparks outrage for publishing names, addresses of gun permit holders

Now if a newspaper can obtain permit information WITHOUT universal background checks, just imagine what information they could obtain (including illegal leaks by Lefty government employees) WITH universal background checks...
Sad news for you, redd. The government already has your information. If you were picked up for vagrancy in 1962 in some podunk town in Alabama before the internet, the FBI still has your record. Don't ask me how but they do so background checks won't change anything there.
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Old 08-06-2019, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
Prove that Walmart was in a Gun Free zone. I can have a business also, where I allow armed customers in, but if I lease at a property owned by some anti-gun clown, I have to follow his policy. Also, another thing about being armed, and you are with your family, which includes youngsters or very elderly. You say you are a combat veteran. Would you leave them to fend for themselves so you can take out the psycho, or would you break your bones taking them to safety first? And then, what makes you think the police at the cordon will allow you back into the danger zone to confront the psycho?

In a million years, and with a million more stupid, anal retentive gun laws, the psychos will not sweat one drop worrying about how they are affected. Your stupid five bullets per magazine, and no "assault" firearms ever suggestion will not deter a single person bent on murdering as many people as he can.

Only law-abiding citizens will obey your stupid suggestions, if they become law.
A private property owner or lease holder can impose restrictions upon people entering the business. People aren't allowed to be armed if they come onto my property or in my house either. That's call "property rights" in America.That's not a "gun free zone" where the government prohibits private individuals from carrying firearms.

Except in a very rare situation, as a combat veteran I'd never attempt to engage another person in a gun fight if I had the opportunity to excape taking my loved one's with me. That's stupid and a reason why we have law enforcement to begin with.

A person proficient with firearms does not require more than five rounds in a removable magazine from a high powered firearm any lawful purpose. Five rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber provides six shots. More than that is not required for self-defense, not required for hunting, not required for competitive events to prove competency or for sporting purposes.

It's interesting because when I learned to shoot my father gave me a single shot .22 rifle and I learned to hit the target with one round. At the opposite end of this is the US military sniper that uses a single shot .50 caliber rifle and is trained to hit the target with one shot. People that need more than one round should spend a lot more time at the range.

It is true that not having a military based semiautomatic rifle did not prevent anyone from committing mass murder but it certainly did prevent them from killing as many people in as short a period of time. Once again this is about reducing the death toll and not preventing the crime completely.


Those that don't obey the law should lose their right to possess firearms because they're criminals.
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Old 08-06-2019, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
A private property owner or lease holder can impose restrictions upon people entering the business. People aren't allowed to be armed if they come onto my property or in my house either. That's call "property rights" in America.That's not a "gun free zone" where the government prohibits private individuals from carrying firearms.

Except in a very rare situation, as a combat veteran I'd never attempt to engage another person in a gun fight if I had the opportunity to excape taking my loved one's with me. That's stupid and a reason why we have law enforcement to begin with.

A person proficient with firearms does not require more than five rounds in a removable magazine from a high powered firearm any lawful purpose. Five rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber provides six shots. More than that is not required for self-defense, not required for hunting, not required for competitive events to prove competency or for sporting purposes.

It's interesting because when I learned to shoot my father gave me a single shot .22 rifle and I learned to hit the target with one round. At the opposite end of this is the US military sniper that uses a single shot .50 caliber rifle and is trained to hit the target with one shot. People that need more than one round should spend a lot more time at the range.

It is true that not having a military based semiautomatic rifle did not prevent anyone from committing mass murder but it certainly did prevent them from killing as many people in as short a period of time. Once again this is about reducing the death toll and not preventing the crime completely.


Those that don't obey the law should lose their right to possess firearms because they're criminals.
I am convinced that I am reading the words of some anti-gun liberal, and that is putting it mildly. You do what you want with your life. Leave the law-abiding people alone, though.

Five bullets my ass.

You also swerve in your Gun Free zone analysis. I don't see what is the difference between the property rights of some anti-gun person and the government prohibiting firearms. Both leave the innocent defenseless.

And then again, with your "reducing the number of victims" blather. So, where did you get the idea that some psycho shooter is going to say to himself,

"Golly! The law prevents me from getting my hands on some good people shooting firepower! Woe is me!"

Lastly, I blame myself for taking the time to read your silly amateurish postings. I do the same thing myself, but I don't try to bullshlt anyone.

Hold on. I forgot this gem:

"Those that don't obey the law should lose their right to possess firearms because they're criminals."

Criminals do not obey the law, so some stupid feel good law against firearms will not deter one, nor will it make it more difficult for him to kill people.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Sad news for you, redd. The government already has your information. If you were picked up for vagrancy in 1962 in some podunk town in Alabama before the internet, the FBI still has your record.
Nice red herring.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
What laws on the books. The ones that state it's a crime to use a firearm to murder someone that can't be enforced until after the murder takes place?

Armed citizens normally carry their firearms concealed and would not represent any threat that would cause a mass murderer to not open fire. These armed citizens are also untrained and represent a significant threat to other innocent people in the chaos of a mass shooting. If you have three then two may decide the third person with a gun out is the shooter and kill them or may kill innocent bystanders by mistake.

To my knowledge neither of these were gun free zones and in Dayton and a law enforcement officer was right there and killed the shooter in a matter of seconds after the attack began. In those few seconds the shooter fired at least 41 rounds at a rate faster than one per second resulting in the deaths and wounding of over two dozen people.

We've also been told by law enforcement that armed citizens make the response by law enforcement much more difficult and slows them down. They don't know if someone with a gun out is the shooter or an innocent person. They must stop to evaluate the situation before proceeding. Every second of delay can result in more innocent victims dying.
Shiva, your idea is to pass laws restricting legal owners and possessors who are not violating any law in the off chance that the laws might, might, stop a murder. That's typical of all proposed anti gun laws. Legal owners and possessors are not the problem. People already acting illegally are the problem.

Don't kid yourself about armed citizens being untrained. Some are, most aren't. That applies to LEO and in many cases the military. LEO qualification in many places consists of one magazine fired per year, sometimes less. While in the military after basic training I was issued an M1 carbine and a 1911 pistol. Not once in my 3 years did I fire either. And I was a small arms analyst. That's typical of most military support personnel.

Mass shooters are a problem, but they are not the problem. Out of 20,000 non suicide, non domestic shootings/year less than a hundred are mass shootings. Pick any two of the top 10 most violent cities, you'll get that count in a month.

And that's shootings. People mass kill in far greater numbers using and more often using other than firearms. Aircraft, automobiles, down to fists.

If we as a nation want to get a handle on violent death, we must first address the real issue which is people killing people. Not guns, particularly legally owned guns, killing people.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The story addresses concealed weapons permits and not background checks. The government retains information on these permits because they need to be able to verify the authenticity and they also notify the holders when it's time to renew the permit. Permits are issued by state and local law enforcement offices, not by the federal government, and there are no documents issued with a background check.

I mentioned on private access to the FBI NICS database the search should allow printing of a receipt for the transaction as proof for running the check. Background check information is stored for a limited amount of time and then erased from what I understand.

If not then change the law to protect privacy but the federal government already knows more about you than you can possibly imagine. People that are afraid of the federal government need to get a life.
Holding a permit does not require the government knowing what firearms you may or may not own.

None. Zip. Zilch. Nil.

Next, if you think you have no need to be concerned what the government, federal or otherwise, is doing with personal information, you only need to look as far as what happened with data at a number of entities, and decide: what does the government need that information for? Look what they've done with the innocuous 23 and Me DNA database.... was that disclosed prior to submitting DNA? No, that vague wonderful statement of 'and other authorized entities.' Check you Hippa statements, privacy policies, etc.... your information is at the tips of the governments fingers..... and for what reason?
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Gun registration is the first towards Gun confiscation. The Government has no business knowing about any of my firearms, and it will stay that way.

If you want to know how Gun Registration works, ask the people of 1930's Germany.
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: "Gun Control" - 10 Proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The story addresses concealed weapons permits and not background checks. The government retains information on these permits because they need to be able to verify the authenticity and they also notify the holders when it's time to renew the permit. Permits are issued by state and local law enforcement offices, not by the federal government, and there are no documents issued with a background check.

I mentioned on private access to the FBI NICS database the search should allow printing of a receipt for the transaction as proof for running the check. Background check information is stored for a limited amount of time and then erased from what I understand.

If not then change the law to protect privacy but the federal government already knows more about you than you can possibly imagine. People that are afraid of the federal government need to get a life.
The government doesn't notify me. Not about my drivers license, my passport, or my Conceal permit.

In Va the state issues the CC permit, so I'm sure the state keeps records. BGC's for purchases are kept at the dealer for 5 years then destroyed. At this point I have no registered weapons. I intend t keep it that way.
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