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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment? at the General Forum; Repeal the Second Amendment? https://www.cato.org/blog/repeal-second-amendment The NRA cites this pronouncement by the Brady Center’s co-founder, Pete Shields: “The first problem ...

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Old 04-03-2018, 11:43 AM
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Default Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Repeal the Second Amendment?
https://www.cato.org/blog/repeal-second-amendment
The NRA cites this pronouncement by the Brady Center’s co-founder, Pete Shields:
“The first problem is to slow down the number of handguns being … sold…. The second problem is to get handguns registered. The final problem is to make possession … totally illegal.”
There’s the proof, says the NRA, that liberals just want to get rid of our guns and kill the Second Amendment. ...
...And that’s why the NRA’s slippery slope argument still resonates with millions of gun owners.
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:54 AM
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Post Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Repeal the Second Amendment?
https://www.cato.org/blog/repeal-second-amendment
The NRA cites this pronouncement by the Brady Center’s co-founder, Pete Shields:
“The first problem is to slow down the number of handguns being … sold…. The second problem is to get handguns registered. The final problem is to make possession … totally illegal.”
There’s the proof, says the NRA, that liberals just want to get rid of our guns and kill the Second Amendment. ...
...And that’s why the NRA’s slippery slope argument still resonates with millions of gun owners.
So by this logic, if I can show a Christian endorsing murdering gays, that proves that "Christians just want to kill gays", right?




This guy died in 1993
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/27/o...-advocate.html
So of course it makes sense to some people that any statement from him (at least 15 years ago) defines what liberals, as a group, think today...



Why do some gun supporters try so damn hard to be dishonest when trying to lie about what liberals are saying ...
... to contradict what liberals are saying is their opinion?


From time-to-time I have seen some liberals proclaim that conservatives are racist. And that stereotyping tactic is up.
When conservatives proclaim that liberals are lying about gun grabbing, it's employing the same heinous stereo-typing tactic.
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

People with intelligence do not need any reminders that the Brady Bunch and the rest of the anti-gun monkeys want total firearm confiscation and nothing less than that.

I am beginning to imagine that gun control people must have descended from a species of monkeys that cannot tell their asses from holes in the ground.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
So by this logic, if I can show a Christian endorsing murdering gays, that proves that "Christians just want to kill gays", right?




This guy died in 1993
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/27/o...-advocate.html
So of course it makes sense to some people that any statement from him (at least 15 years ago) defines what liberals, as a group, think today...



Why do some gun supporters try so damn hard to be dishonest when trying to lie about what liberals are saying ...
... to contradict what liberals are saying is their opinion?


From time-to-time I have seen some liberals proclaim that conservatives are racist. And that stereotyping tactic is up.
When conservatives proclaim that liberals are lying about gun grabbing, it's employing the same heinous stereo-typing tactic.
You are correct that to state that liberals (implying all liberals) support the position of repealing the 2nd Amendment is dishonest or incorrect. I agree as I have seen posts from you defending the 2nd Amendment; that would validate your claim that not ALL liberals are in favor of this proposal.

However, I think you could also agree that the majority opinion of those that consider themselves liberal or progressives, would share the view that the 2nd Amendment needs to be either repealed or drawn down, so to say. I know there are those on that side of the aisle would not be in favor of such proposals, but they are in conflict with the majority. Or am I wrong?
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Repeal of the second amendment begins with a re-defining of what it means. And ends with a re-defining of what our self government means.

If we allow the first steps in that direction, with each generation taken one more, the final combined corrosive action will give us the government of what our Founder's warned when they all agreed on the absolute necessity of enumerating the Bill of Rights.

Or the original final draft of the Constitution would be worthless
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
So by this logic, if I can show a Christian endorsing murdering gays, that proves that "Christians just want to kill gays", right?
If this were some fringe element, you'd have a point, but this is the actual president of the Brady Center, which is well known and respected in Democrat circles...

Also...Does an actual vice chair in the National Democrat Party sway you?...

Louisiana Democratic Party Chair Suggests Repealing the Second Amendment

Quote:
The chairwoman of the Louisiana Democratic Party is the most high-profile Democratic official in the country to date to call for a repeal of the Second Amendment.

Karen Carter Peterson on Tuesday shared a New York Times op-ed by former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens, who argued that the Second Amendment should be repealed because the initial reasons for its creation are "now a relic of the 18th century."

The Washington Free Beacon reached out to Peterson and the Louisiana Democratic Party for comment and clarification, but no response was offered.

Peterson also serves as a Louisiana state senator and as a vice chair of the Democratic National Committee.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
So by this logic, if I can show a Christian endorsing murdering gays, that proves that "Christians just want to kill gays", right?


That would be the fringe elements in the christian community that support murdering gays seeing how most Christians don't support murdering gays. Sure not all left wingers support severely restricting or repealing the 2nd amendment.But leftwingers who want to severely restrict or ban guns are not the fringe among leftist. It would be leftists who actually support the 2nd amendment that are the fringe amount leftists.
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Old 04-03-2018, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
So by this logic, if I can show a Christian endorsing murdering gays, that proves that "Christians just want to kill gays", right?
If he was the head of an National org specifically designed to REDUCE the number homosexuals in America, and has the ear of prominent gov't officials and people of national status on the board. and had a president that said
“The first problem is to slow down the number of homosexuals in America being ... The second problem is to get homosexuals registered. The final problem is to make homosexuality … totally illegal or have them killed.”
Yes, then you could say that SOME predominate Christians DO want homosexuals killed.
that logic follows fine.
until then say just some random podunk preachers calling for the death homosexuals doesn't cut it logically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
This guy died in 1993
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/27/o...-advocate.html
So of course it makes sense to some people that any statement from him (at least 15 years ago) defines what liberals, as a group, think today...
Why do some gun supporters try so damn hard to be dishonest when trying to lie about what liberals are saying ...
... to contradict what liberals are saying is their opinion?
please read the words here very carefully so you understand EXACTLY what i'm saying. please don't READ INTO it, or morph it into what you think I really mean or what you think my real reasons are.
In other words don't do what you're accusing me of doing.

here it is
I quoted a PROMINENT socially acceptable, left leaning, legitimate Gun-control leader's actual words. As ONE real life example of someone who's an active member of the Gun-control promoters real agenda. He was the head of an org designed to reduce gun availability. I'm SURE there were/are others IN the same ORG that did not share his vision. HOWEVER he was the org's president for some time so I'm JUST as SURE that he was not ALONE in his opinion among members of that org and among members of the left. How many I don't know.... AND I DIDN'T SAY. I simply quoted him. not you, or others.

But it is in fact a reasonable conclusion to make that other do hold his view

There's NOTHING more that I Posted here.
Nothing.

I'm sorry you don't like what he said makes ALL gun-control advocates looks suspicious but the fact is he said it.

As far as current gun control advocates go a former SCOTUS said it outright a few days ago.

But now I'll speak to the lefts gun-control ideas generally.
Here's the thing that always undercuts the lefts "reasonable" presentation of MORE new gun-control laws in my ears.
1. the "reasonable" advocate often site other countries that have completely repealed gun ownership as examples of how "it works". if they don't want to completely repeal why throw completely repealed nations in our faces?
2. If you ask gun-control advocates where he final line in the sand is you never get a clear answer. I've done this in 'real life' and the things is the gun-control advocates are in fact more concerned about "saving lives" (a noble cause) than about gun rights. So it's very very difficult for them to rule out any gun-control options though "they want to be fair".
3. after every tragic event there's an understandably emotive outcry to do "something" ... meaning even MORE gun-control laws. again the question is what will satisfy?
Each time the pro-2nd amendment folks are plaintively asked to compromise and "listen" and "do something" more and more and more. While the gun-control side is not excepted to give back any ground.

So More and more of the Right to ownship is eroded, with those factors and more I'm not sure why pro-2nd amendment folks shouldn't be concerned FI66.
You act as if No legitimate gun-control advocates have EVERY really seriously thought or considered repealing the 2nd amendment... Outright or as is happening incrementally.
So you point my and other comments out is some kind "LYING" outrage.
i don't get it. i'm not saying that ALL gun-control advocates are "GUNGRAPBERS" But this one guy DID say it though FI66. that's a fact.

I'm not Ignoring the so-called "REASONABLE" calls for gun-control.
But i am pointing out that the slippery slope is real and SOME gun-control advocates -past and present- would like to PUSH it down the slope.

Look if you don't agree with that, Fine.
But please don't cut up my post into thousand pieces. i know what i said and I know what i meant. I think others do to.

If you have a few points in response i'm happy to read them but I appreciate a real conversation without snark and eye rolls or you telling me what I REALLY mean thanks.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 04-03-2018 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:36 PM
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Post Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesrage
That would be the fringe elements in the christian community that support murdering gays seeing how most Christians don't support murdering gays. Sure not all left wingers support severely restricting or repealing the 2nd amendment.But leftwingers who want to severely restrict or ban guns are not the fringe among leftist. It would be leftists who actually support the 2nd amendment that are the fringe amount leftists.
How do you make that distinction that "leftwingers who want to severely restrict or ban guns are not the fringe among leftist"
What we see in thread after thread is the right quoting an individual who wants to ban guns or eliminate the 2nd amendment, and then the automatic assumption (with no demonstrated justification) is that it proves the majority of leftwingers want that...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
If he was the head of an National org specifically designed to REDUCE the number homosexuals in America, and has the ear of prominent gov't officials and people of national status on the board. and had a president that said
“The first problem is to slow down the number of homosexuals in America being ... The second problem is to get homosexuals registered. The final problem is to make homosexuality … totally illegal or have them killed.”
Yes, then you could say that SOME predominate Christians DO want homosexuals killed.
that logic follows fine.
Funny how you want to throw all those additional, irrelevant qualifiers in there...

But that's fine. I've got tons of examples to back up the counter-argument...
And note: These are typically pastors with congregations.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...aids/19929973/
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/u...g-outrage.html
https://www.metroweekly.com/2016/09/...rted-botswana/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/video-...ttle-safer-now

There are tons of them on the internet.
How many do I need before you agree it proves Christians want to kill gays?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
here it is
I quoted a PROMINENT socially acceptable, left leaning, legitimate Gun-control leader's actual words. As ONE real life example of someone who's an active member of the Gun-control promoters real agenda. He was the head of an org designed to reduce gun availability. I'm SURE there were/are others IN the same ORG that did not share his vision. HOWEVER he was the org's president for some time so I'm JUST as SURE that he was not ALONE in his opinion among members of that org and among members of the left. How many I don't know.... AND I DIDN'T SAY. I simply quoted him. not you, or others.
Cut the obfuscation crap mr wonder.
You know the problem I pointed out with the assessment in your post:
There’s the proof, says the NRA, that liberals just want to get rid of our guns and kill the Second Amendment. ...



Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
But it is in fact a reasonable conclusion to make that other do hold his view
If that's all you had put into your post, I would have simply agreed with you.
But that's not what happened, is it...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
There's NOTHING more that I Posted here.
Nothing.
Really?
So the following quote was not in your post #1?
There’s the proof, says the NRA, that liberals just want to get rid of our guns and kill the Second Amendment. ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I'm sorry you don't like what he said makes ALL gun-control advocates looks suspicious but the fact is he said it.
And likewise, when there are so many Christian pastors out there who are caught blurting out something that many try to keep secret, that makes all Christians look suspicious.
But the fact is they say it.

And there are tons of other examples to. Like reparative therapy which has been exposed to have a ridiculously high suicide rating (as compared to non-reparative therapy participants).
They are popular with many Christians.
Is it because they like killing gays?


This is the lack of thinking that goes into the approach from post #1


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
But now I'll speak to the lefts gun-control ideas generally.
Here's the thing that always undercuts the lefts "reasonable" presentation of MORE new gun-control laws in my ears.
1. the "reasonable" advocate often site other countries that have completely repealed gun ownership as examples of how "it works". if they don't want to completely repeal why throw completely repealed nations in our faces?
Simple question for you...
Feel free to ignore it like you do so many other of my questions...
How many liberals here have made that argument that you just stated???
The reality is it doesn't matter if ten liberals say "That's not what we want". The pro-gun crowd habitually latch onto a liberal who says "That's what I want" and stereo-type it onto the group.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
2. If you ask gun-control advocates where he final line in the sand is you never get a clear answer. I've done this in 'real life' and the things is the gun-control advocates are in fact more concerned about "saving lives" (a noble cause) than about gun rights. So it's very very difficult for them to rule out any gun-control options though "they want to be fair".
WTF are you talking about?
I have repeatedly stated a variety of things I think are crossing the line. Multiple other posters on this forum have done likewise.
I can easily start a poll asking people to identify their political inclination and whether they support banning guns (a clear line) and we both know there will be more liberals against banning guns than for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
3. after every tragic event there's an understandably emotive outcry to do "something" ... meaning even MORE gun-control laws. again the question is what will satisfy?
Each time the pro-2nd amendment folks are plaintively asked to compromise and "listen" and "do something" more and more and more. While the gun-control side is not excepted to give back any ground.
You have clearly flipped the description on that.
It's the pro-gun side that demands ground but refuses to give any.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
So More and more of the Right to ownship is eroded, with those factors and more I'm not sure why pro-2nd amendment folks shouldn't be concerned FI66.
You act as if No legitimate gun-control advocates have EVERY really seriously thought or considered repealing the 2nd amendment... Outright or as is happening incrementally.
ROFLMAO!
I laugh at how you phrase that. Cause we both know what you just said is utter horse-
I have fully acknowledged that some want to revoke the 2nd amendment.
I have fully acknowledged that a MINORITY of liberals want to take the guns.
The fact that you have to throw out these bad lies and ignore what is actually being said by me and others is a clear demonstration of the landscape on this issue.

IT DOES NOT MATTER what we actually say.
Some just assume what they want to...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
So you point my and other comments out is some kind "LYING" outrage.
i don't get it. i'm not saying that ALL gun-control advocates are "GUNGRAPBERS" But this one guy DID say it though FI66. that's a fact.
I'm not Ignoring the so-called "REASONABLE" calls for gun-control.
But i am pointing out that the slippery slope is real and SOME gun-control advocates -past and present- would like to PUSH it down the slope.
Look if you don't agree with that, Fine.
But please don't cut up my post into thousand pieces. i know what i said and I know what i meant. I think others do to.
If you have a few points in response i'm happy to read them but I appreciate a real conversation without snark and eye rolls or you telling me what I REALLY mean thanks.
I appreciate honesty.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:38 PM
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Post Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
If this were some fringe element, you'd have a point, but this is the actual president of the Brady Center, which is well known and respected in Democrat circles...
Also...Does an actual vice chair in the National Democrat Party sway you?...
Louisiana Democratic Party Chair Suggests Repealing the Second Amendment
No. It doesn't.

And let me explain a counter standard...
Republicans elected Donald Trump.
Ergo, would it be valid for me to claim that Republicans endorse ____ ?
And I just start listing things Trump has done or said in the ____ spot.


We both know that's a b.s. approach regarding Republicans and Trump.
But when it's your opponent political party, you don't have the same standard do you...
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