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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment? at the General Forum; Originally Posted by foundit66 How do you make that distinction that "leftwingers who want to severely restrict or ban guns ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2018, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
How do you make that distinction that "leftwingers who want to severely restrict or ban guns are not the fringe among leftist"
What we see in thread after thread is the right quoting an individual who wants to ban guns or eliminate the 2nd amendment, and then the automatic assumption (with no demonstrated justification) is that it proves the majority of leftwingers want that...
That is true what I said. Most left wingers in the media push for anti-2nd amendment laws or give a soap box to those who do.Most left wingers in office support anti-2nd amendment laws. Most of the people voting for these anti-2nd amendment politicians are leftwingers.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Funny how you want to throw all those additional, irrelevant qualifiers in there...
I simply made the type of person, the type of position and the quote MATCH the gun-control guy i quoted.
But somehow you want to read that as "qualifiers".
Seems to me it's just being specific and comparing "apples to apples" .which is something you often want others to do..

what gives, You complain if i'm specific in some places, then complain if i'm not specific enough in others there no way to work with you dude.
sorry we have different views on subjects FI66 but that's life.
I just wish you'd give me the benny of the doubt sometimes rather than assume the worse possible motives and run with that.
but Hey I can't have what like all the time either.

but to REPLY to your other complaints and accusations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
But that's fine. I've got tons of examples to back up the counter-argument...
And note: These are typically pastors with congregations.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...aids/19929973/
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/u...g-outrage.html
https://www.metroweekly.com/2016/09/...rted-botswana/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/video-...ttle-safer-now
There are tons of them on the internet.
How many do I need before you agree it proves Christians want to kill gays?
none. You're right I'm the only Christian in America that DOES NOT want to kill homosexuals. there ya go.
So, what will it take for you to admit that many on the left want to repeal the 2nd amendment?
the Polls say 1 in 5 Americans want to, I suspect that MOST of those are left leaning. And not right wing republicans.
Am I lying? Am i being hysterical? or Unfair in that assumption?
Here's a link (see page 65) to a survey where 24% of Democrats "Strongly Favor" repealing the 2nd amendment 15% "Favor Somewhat", that's nearly 40% of democrats. Only 26% strongly oppose. Do i need to post anything else?


Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Cut the obfuscation crap mr wonder.
You know the problem I pointed out with the assessment in your post:
There’s the proof, says the NRA, that liberals just want to get rid of our guns and kill the Second Amendment. ...
the problem is again you take everything in worse light. and think I'm Obfuscating or lying if my thinking is simply focused in a different spot.

You put the emphasis on the spot that bugs you most and pluck it out.
I read that portions like this.
"There’s the proof, says the NRA, that liberals just want to get rid of our guns and kill the Second Amendment. ... "
You seem to read it as
There’s the proof, says MR WONDER, that liberals just want to get rid of our guns and kill the Second Amendment. ...
and go off on a RANT.

I quoted bits of an article, with 2 quotes one from the Former Brady co-founder and one generically from the NRA, and a summation line from the article writer. you assumed I agreed 100% with the NRA quote. why make that assumption FI66?
I've NEVER said that. EVER. so calm yourself.

Instead you should have read the WHOLE thing the way I would giving me the benny of the doubt.
...The NRA cites this pronouncement by the Brady Center’s co-founder, Pete Shields:
“The first problem is to slow down the number of handguns being … sold…. The second problem is to get handguns registered. The final problem is to make possession … totally illegal.” There’s the proof, says the NRA, that liberals just want to get rid of our guns and kill the Second Amendment. ......And that’s why the NRA’s slippery slope argument still resonates with millions of gun owners.
But you'd rather assume i'm a liar and trying to make the left look worse than they do already on this issue.
Look, I'd be lying if i said that the NRA DOESN'T SAY or think that ALL liberals want to get rid of guns.
But it's not what I say FI66 but it is what THEY say. And even IF i don't believe the NRA there, which i don't, the Argument DOES resonate since they can point to individuals, prominent active gun control leaders, like Pete Shields and former SC Justices etc..
But somehow I don' think you'll believe me or somehow you'll find a way to make believe that I'm just a terrible soul obfuscating, Lying, saying things without proof, being hysterical, and whatever and again start EyeRolling and shock facing.

oh well
continued in next post
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foundit66
If that's all you had put into your post, I would have simply agreed with you.
But that's not what happened, is it...
If you had given m the benny of the doubt that that's what i meant and that I'm NOT the NRA ... I'm not even a member!... then we could have agreed i guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foundit66
Simple question for you...
Feel free to ignore it like you do so many other of my questions...
How many liberals here have made that argument that you just stated???
The reality is it doesn't matter if ten liberals say "That's not what we want". The pro-gun crowd habitually latch onto a liberal who says "That's what I want" and stereo-type it onto the group.
Poll says one in 5 Americans Want it.
Survey says 24% of democrats want it.
that's a few more than 10
here are some specific folks
Jon Stewart and John Oliver mock Pro-gun rights people for not being like Australia
vox.comVOX points to Australia as example for the US
Albany Times Union Opinion page -Australia could serve as model for-gun control
Chicago tribune: Norway and Australia move forward with new gun control measures, as U.S. debate rages on
CNBC: Why the US is so different from the UK and Australia when it comes to gun control
NYT Opinion page- To Repeat:Repeal the Second Amendment- Austria and UK are examples
WAPost: One in five Americans wants the Second Amendment to be repealed, national survey finds
HuffPost:As The U.S. Looks To Australia For Hope On Guns, Its Laws Are Being Quietly Pulled Back
Slate: "Australia’s example" -In 1996, Australia Enacted Strict Gun Laws. It Hasn't Had a Mass Shooting Since. - points to
GQ:--How America Can Stop Mass Shootings, From the Country that Already Did-- Australia
Hillary Clinton: Australia-style gun control ‘worth looking at’

I believe you when you say many on the left ON THIS BOARD are against full repeal of the second amendment or Australia style mandatory Gun confiscation But I know you're not saying that NO OTHER liberal voices COUNT at ALL. Right?

I'll repeat so I'm Clear. I KNOW there are many on the left that DO NOT want to repeal the 2nd amendment or WANt Australia style gun control. But SOME REALLY do and they are active. and they THROW FULL REPEAL COUNTRIES IN OUR FACE AS EXAMPLE! I'm not trying to PAINT the whole. but the REPEAL group are ACTIVELY AMONG the "reasonable" group. And it seems that around 30% or more of the gun-control crowd DO want repeal.

so please relax and own it. and don't get freaked.
But If i say "FI66 wants to repeal" please correct me but other than that, don't ASSUME i mean ALL on the left.
If i only mention ONE or many.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foundit66
You have clearly flipped the description on that.
It's the pro-gun side that demands ground but refuses to give any.
seriously? so gun owners want MORE gun rights than the 2nd amendment allows?
And the gun-control side don't consistently want MORE laws that restrict gun use and ownership?
Um FI66 we disagree there
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Last edited by mr wonder; 04-03-2018 at 09:01 PM..
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2018, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder
Survey says 24% of democrats want it.
Right there is the data point which disproves wayyyy too many fear-mongering assumptions on this forum.
It is not a majority.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder
seriously? so gun owners want MORE gun rights than the 2nd amendment allows?
If you look at the overwhelming majority of history for how the 2nd amendment has been interpreted, it did not cover what has been magically rewritten within the last ten years.
For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”

During the years when Warren Burger was our chief justice, from 1969 to 1986, no judge, federal or state, as far as I am aware, expressed any doubt as to the limited coverage of that amendment. When organizations like the National Rifle Association disagreed with that position and began their campaign claiming that federal regulation of firearms curtailed Second Amendment rights, Chief Justice Burger publicly characterized the N.R.A. as perpetrating “one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

In 2008, the Supreme Court overturned Chief Justice Burger’s and others’ long-settled understanding of the Second Amendment’s limited reach by ruling, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that there was an individual right to bear arms. I was among the four dissenters.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/o...amendment.html
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”
Just that little tidbit above, taken from a post above, can anyone explain just how a sawed off shotgun in the possession of a law-abiding citizen is going to cause danger to anyone but bad guys?
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post



In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”
So by that thinking a fully auto rifle such an M16 would be legal.
And to think the anti-gun crowd have a sh*t fit over semi auto. AR-15s
All kinds of firearms have been used at various times and you can bet your bottom dollar that if this nation was invaded ANYTHING would be used. In WW 2 the British even issued SPEARS (Pikes)!

By the way sawed off shotguns were used in the trenches in WW 1 and the plaintiff in that case was dead by the time this case was heard by that Court

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Old 04-04-2018, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
If you look at the overwhelming majority of history for how the 2nd amendment has been interpreted, it did not cover what has been magically rewritten within the last ten years.
For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”

During the years when Warren Burger was our chief justice, from 1969 to 1986, no judge, federal or state, as far as I am aware, expressed any doubt as to the limited coverage of that amendment. When organizations like the National Rifle Association disagreed with that position and began their campaign claiming that federal regulation of firearms curtailed Second Amendment rights, Chief Justice Burger publicly characterized the N.R.A. as perpetrating “one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

In 2008, the Supreme Court overturned Chief Justice Burger’s and others’ long-settled understanding of the Second Amendment’s limited reach by ruling, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that there was an individual right to bear arms. I was among the four dissenters.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/o...amendment.html
Really, that you keep regurgitating this absolute BS is why nobody will ever trust a word you (or liberals in general) say about firearms policy.
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder
Survey says 24% of democrats want it.
Right there is the data point which disproves wayyyy too many fear-mongering assumptions on this forum.
It is not a majority.
Whoa whoa whoa!!!!...

24% is HUUUUGE!!!...

A full fourth of all Democrats want to see an amendment repealed???...One that's not only in the original Bill of Rights, but was so important it was placed SECOND in line out of all amendments?!?!?!...

That's downright scary...It's about 37% too much...

AAAAAAANNNNNNND!!!...

The "repealers" sole goal, right now, is to increase their numbers, so 24% today becomes 34% in a few years...and 44% in a few more more years...and then 54% a few years after that...THEN you'll be yelling "We should do it!!!! That's what the majority wants!!!!!"...
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
If this were some fringe element, you'd have a point, but this is the actual president of the Brady Center, which is well known and respected in Democrat circles...

Also...Does an actual vice chair in the National Democrat Party sway you?...

Louisiana Democratic Party Chair Suggests Repealing the Second Amendment
Sweet. Finally found a specific living Democrat. Only took a few tries lol.

Needless to say, but I don't agree with this person.
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Brady Center Prez -Repeal the Second Amendment?

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Sweet. Finally found a specific living Democrat. Only took a few tries lol.

Needless to say, but I don't agree with this person.
Let me get this straight. You don't agree with the baboon, but you call it sweet that you found such a primate?
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