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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires at the General Forum; A Democrat-backed study meant to expose illicit online gun sales instead seemed to show the opposite -- with hardly any ...

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Old 01-08-2018, 03:31 PM
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Default Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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A Democrat-backed study meant to expose illicit online gun sales instead seemed to show the opposite -- with hardly any sellers taking the bait when undercover investigators tried to set up dozens of illegal firearm transactions.

Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., as well as Sens. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., and Brian Schatz, D-Hawaii, had commissioned the Government Accountability Office report to look into how online private dealers might be selling guns to people not allowed to have them.

Their efforts were based on a 2016 report from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which claimed that “anonymity of the internet makes it an ideal means for prohibited individuals to obtain illegal firearms.”

“Congressional requesters asked that GAO access the extent to which ATF is enforcing existing laws and investigate whether online private sellers sell firearms to be people who are not allowed or eligible to possess a firearm,” the GAO report said.


Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., ranking member on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, speaks during a news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, Wednesday, May 17, 2017. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., led the charge for GAO to commission the report. (AP)

Over the course of the two-and-a-half year investigation, agents tried to buy firearms illegally on the “Surface Web” and the “Dark Web,” generally by sharing their status as “prohibited individuals” or trying to buy across state lines.

But the GAO revealed that their 72 attempts outside of the dark web were all “unsuccessful.”



“Private sellers on Surface Web gun forums and in classified ads were unwilling to sell a firearm to our agents that self-identified as being prohibited from possessing a firearm,” the GAO reported, noting that in their “72 attempts ... 56 sellers refused to complete a transaction once we revealed that either the shipping address was across state lines or that we were prohibited by law from owning firearms.” In the other cases, the investigators' website was frozen or they encountered suspected scammers.

On the dark web, GAO agents successfully purchased two guns illegally, as the serial numbers on the weapons were “obliterated” and “shipped across state lines.” But in the attempt to purchase, the GAO agents “did not disclose any information indicating they were prohibited from possessing a firearm.”

Based on the findings of the study, the GAO said it is “not making recommendations in this report.”

Sen. Elizabeth Warren joined with Sen. Brian Schultz, D-Hawaii, and Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md., to commission the GAO report. (AP)

Cummings, Warren and Schatz did not immediately respond to Fox News’ request for comment on the GAO’s findings.

The National Rifle Association seized on the report to claim that online sales are in fact regulated, calling the study an "embarrassment" for the gun control lobby.

“GAO’s findings showed nothing so much as that private sellers advertising online are knowledgeable about the law, conscientious, and self-policing,” The National Rifle Association said, adding that online gun sales are “subject to the same federal laws that apply to any other commercial or private gun sales.”

The NRA described the study as an attempt to model the findings of former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s 2015 report, titled “Point, Click, Fire: An investigation of illegal online gun sales,” which found that 62 percent of private sellers were willing to proceed with a sale, even if the prospective purchaser could not pass a background check.
More evidence that Bloomberg's "report" should be filed under fiction.
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

Over 300,000 Americans have been killed from the use of Guns in the last decade.

Is there anything at all we can do to at least lower those numbers?

We already lock more people up than any other nation on Earth, so putting people in jail is certainly not the answer.

Or do we just not do anything?


Serious questions folks, first person to call me a libtard gets a timeout.


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Old 01-08-2018, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Over 300,000 Americans have been killed from the use of Guns in the last decade.

Is there anything at all we can do to at least lower those numbers?

We already lock more people up than any other nation on Earth, so putting people in jail is certainly not the answer.

Or do we just not do anything?


Serious questions folks, first person to call me a libtard gets a timeout.
Yes, get rid of "gun free zones" for a start. They are simply a free kill zone to an armed man man knowing that his/her victims will not be able to defend themselves.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Yes, get rid of "gun free zones" for a start. They are simply a free kill zone to an armed man man knowing that his/her victims will not be able to defend themselves.

Hey I get it, around here people carry Assault Rifles into gas stations. I own several guns myself.

But I don't live in a big city either, this seems to work in smaller places, more rural areas, that already have less crime. but can you imagine New York City, or LA? Millions of people all walking around strapped? That doesn't seem very safe to me.

I'm not saying your wrong, apparently there are studies that show both ways of the argument, but even here you still can't bring your gun into the wallyworld or the bank.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Over 300,000 Americans have been killed from the use of Guns in the last decade.

Is there anything at all we can do to at least lower those numbers?

We already lock more people up than any other nation on Earth, so putting people in jail is certainly not the answer.

Or do we just not do anything?


Serious questions folks, first person to call me a libtard gets a timeout.



1.3 million people die in road crashes each year. 4 times the number that have been killed by gun violence in the last "decade".

Is there anything at all we can do to at least lower those numbers?

We already lock more people up than any other nation on Earth, so putting people in jail is certainly not the answer.

Or do we just not do anything?

(Actually if someone wanted to have a serious conversation on this topic I would love to discuss it. But no one is going to focus on it because there are more important things to fix.... You know... GUNS!!!)
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by Zenock View Post
1.3 million people die in road crashes each year. 4 times the number that have been killed by gun violence in the last "decade".

Is there anything at all we can do to at least lower those numbers?

(Actually if someone wanted to have a serious conversation on this topic I would love to discuss it. But no one is going to focus on it because there are more important things to fix.... You know... GUNS!!!)

Well come on back when your serious then. I'd love to hear what you have to say.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Hey I get it, around here people carry Assault Rifles into gas stations. I own several guns myself.

But I don't live in a big city either, this seems to work in smaller places, more rural areas, that already have less crime. but can you imagine New York City, or LA? Millions of people all walking around strapped? That doesn't seem very safe to me.

I'm not saying your wrong, apparently there are studies that show both ways of the argument, but even here you still can't bring your gun into the wallyworld or the bank.
Walmart does not restrict handgun carry. Neither does my bank if concealed.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Over 300,000 Americans have been killed from the use of Guns in the last decade.

Is there anything at all we can do to at least lower those numbers?

We already lock more people up than any other nation on Earth, so putting people in jail is certainly not the answer.

Or do we just not do anything?


Serious questions folks, first person to call me a libtard gets a timeout.


The first thing we should do is look at the number you have presented in more detail.
- That number includes not only homicides, but also police related shootings, suicides, accidents (hate that term), and self defense. Lets look at these individually.
* Suicides: I don't have the figures for the entire decade you cite, but in 2015 suicide accounted for over 2/3 of deaths by gun shot. A person who wants to commit suicide is going to do so regardless of access to a gun. There are umpteen different ways to off yourself. For example, Japan has a much higher suicide rate than the U.S. and civilian gun ownership is a statistical nil.
* Police related shootings and self defense: I personally don't have a problem with these, assuming they are justified.
* Accidents (which would more correctly read "negligence"): Stupid people get themselves killed and sometimes kill others, I know of no way to fix stupid.
* Homicides: In 2014 the national homicide rate hit a 34 year low, in roughly that same time period the number of civilian owned guns more than doubled.

So what do we do about the homicides? Here are my suggestions:
- Keep murderers in jail forever or better yet, put them in a grave. The recidivism rate for murder isn't as high as other crimes, but one is to many.
- Mandatory 20 year prison sentence for any crime committed with a gun, no plea bargaining, 20 years period. Make it simply not worth the risk to commit even a purse snatch using a gun.
- Mandatory 20 year prison sentence for knowingly supplying a prohibited person with a gun. Again, no plea bargain.
- Make prisons harsh. No more watching tv, doing drugs, working out and planning future crimes with your fellow inmate gang bangers. Prison should mean 23 hours a day in a 6x9 room, with an hour a day to shower and spend a little time in an outdoor cage.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by lurch907 View Post
More evidence that Bloomberg's "report" should be filed under fiction.
The agents were informing that seller that they were prohibited from possessing firearms? What kind of stupid is that. A prohibited person is not going to tell the seller that they're prohibited. All this tells me is that the whole study was based upon ignorant criteria and it didn't result in any information related to how many prohibited people, that would never in 1,000 years tell the seller they were prohibited, are likely to purchase firearms illegally on the internet.

I would like to see a study on how many people ship directly from seller to buyer across state lines. It's not illegal to sell/transfer a firearm across state line but the shipment must be from FFL to FFL and the person receiving the firearm must pass the FFL background check. A direct transfer between private parties across state lines is illegal.

The NRA claim that this proves that internet sales don't result in prohibited persons from acquiring firearms is, of course, bogus because it would only apply to people that are dumb as a rock and tell the seller that they're prohibited.

BTW - If a study is to be done then simply trying to purchase a firearm online using an alias would be enough to prove the ease for a prohibited person to illegally purchase a firearm. We also know that private sales where no background check by a private person can result in prohibited persons acquiring firearms. I personally purchase a shotgun from a "friend of a friend" and he never asked me for any ID when he filled out a bill of sale. He just wrote in the name I gave him on both copies and that was it. There was no way he could have known if I was prohibited and didn't even check to see if I was giving him my real name or even if I had any ID at all.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Over 300,000 Americans have been killed from the use of Guns in the last decade.

Is there anything at all we can do to at least lower those numbers?

We already lock more people up than any other nation on Earth, so putting people in jail is certainly not the answer.

Or do we just not do anything?


Serious questions folks, first person to call me a libtard gets a timeout.


And that has exactly WHAT to do with the OP?
It has nothing to do with the number of guns but the claim that guns were easy to get illegally. Seems the validity of those claims is lacking.

Why is that?

Serious question that you should answer.
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