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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires at the General Forum; Originally Posted by lurch907 The first thing we should do is look at the number you have presented in more ...

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Old 01-09-2018, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by lurch907 View Post
The first thing we should do is look at the number you have presented in more detail.
- That number includes not only homicides, but also police related shootings, suicides, accidents (hate that term), and self defense. Lets look at these individually.
* Suicides: I don't have the figures for the entire decade you cite, but in 2015 suicide accounted for over 2/3 of deaths by gun shot. A person who wants to commit suicide is going to do so regardless of access to a gun. There are umpteen different ways to off yourself. For example, Japan has a much higher suicide rate than the U.S. and civilian gun ownership is a statistical nil.
* Police related shootings and self defense: I personally don't have a problem with these, assuming they are justified.
* Accidents (which would more correctly read "negligence"): Stupid people get themselves killed and sometimes kill others, I know of no way to fix stupid.
* Homicides: In 2014 the national homicide rate hit a 34 year low, in roughly that same time period the number of civilian owned guns more than doubled.

So what do we do about the homicides? Here are my suggestions:
- Keep murderers in jail forever or better yet, put them in a grave. The recidivism rate for murder isn't as high as other crimes, but one is to many.
- Mandatory 20 year prison sentence for any crime committed with a gun, no plea bargaining, 20 years period. Make it simply not worth the risk to commit even a purse snatch using a gun.
- Mandatory 20 year prison sentence for knowingly supplying a prohibited person with a gun. Again, no plea bargain.
- Make prisons harsh. No more watching tv, doing drugs, working out and planning future crimes with your fellow inmate gang bangers. Prison should mean 23 hours a day in a 6x9 room, with an hour a day to shower and spend a little time in an outdoor cage
.
Thank you.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:12 AM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Hey I get it, around here people carry Assault Rifles into gas stations. I own several guns myself.

But I don't live in a big city either, this seems to work in smaller places, more rural areas, that already have less crime. but can you imagine New York City, or LA? Millions of people all walking around strapped? That doesn't seem very safe to me.

I'm not saying your wrong, apparently there are studies that show both ways of the argument, but even here you still can't bring your gun into the wallyworld or the bank.
I also live in a rural area. We do have people that open carry and no one thinks twice about it. We also don't have people shooting other innocent people.

You state that you own guns. Are all of them "Assault Rifles"? (BTW, please define what an "Assault Rifle" is if you don't mind). You do realize that there are other types of firearms for sale to the public. Some of them small enough to conceal under your clothing.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
It has nothing to do with the number of guns but the claim that guns were easy to get illegally. Seems the validity of those claims is lacking.

Why is that?

Serious question that you should answer.
I mentioned that I'd purchased a shotgun without even showing ID a couple of years ago and had I been prohibited it would have been the illegal purchase of a firearm. In fact I've only purchased two firearms of the several I own from gun stores (FFL's)where a background check was run and, had I been a prohibited person, all of those other firearms would have been illegal purchases.

It's really very easy for a prohibited person to obtain firearms in America. Virtually any private sale, except in a few states, is an unregulated sale where a prohibited person can purchase a firearm because a background check cannot be run by a private person.

I wouldn't even know if my brother was prohibited from possessing a firearm because I couldn't run a background check. I know he wasn't a convicted felon but he could be under a court restraining order for domestic violence or for mental health issues establishing a prohibited status that I'd be unaware of.
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Over 300,000 Americans have been killed from the use of Guns in the last decade.

Is there anything at all we can do to at least lower those numbers?
Would it make people happier if Americans were killed by cars or knives or fires or some thing other than guns? How about being pushed out of second story windows? Golly!

People are going to kill each other, whether it is with firearms or rocks and sticks. I know one thing though. People had better butt out of infringing on the second amendment.
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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It's really very easy for a prohibited person to obtain firearms in America. Virtually any private sale, except in a few states, is an unregulated sale where a prohibited person can purchase a firearm because a background check cannot be run by a private person.
Is a psycho a prohibited person? And if so, how do you stop him from turning psycho after he legally purchases a firearm?
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Well come on back when your serious then. I'd love to hear what you have to say.
Oh I AM serious.

You throw out a number that doesn't tell the whole story. Then pick something arbitrary to compare it to that also doesn't tell the whole story.

When I point out how ridiculous it is to use this tactic. By pointing out that you are over 40 times more likely to be killed in a car accident then shot by a gun.
Yet you NEVER hear about vehicular reform. You claim I'm the one NOT BEING SERIOUS. Wow.
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Old 01-11-2018, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

The murder rate has been cut in half since it's high point in 1980.

That should make Mr. Redstate feel better.
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Old 01-11-2018, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Over 300,000 Americans have been killed from the use of Guns in the last decade.

Is there anything at all we can do to at least lower those numbers?

We already lock more people up than any other nation on Earth, so putting people in jail is certainly not the answer.

Or do we just not do anything?


Serious questions folks, first person to call me a libtard gets a timeout.


The vast majority of gun deaths are from suicide and other, not murder. Why are so many people committing suicide? I doubt that the suicide rate would go down even if we confiscated ALL guns. In that same 10 year period over 440,000 people committed suicide.

Question for RS: Did the guns really kill these people?

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Old 01-11-2018, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I mentioned that I'd purchased a shotgun without even showing ID a couple of years ago and had I been prohibited it would have been the illegal purchase of a firearm. In fact I've only purchased two firearms of the several I own from gun stores (FFL's)where a background check was run and, had I been a prohibited person, all of those other firearms would have been illegal purchases.

It's really very easy for a prohibited person to obtain firearms in America. Virtually any private sale, except in a few states, is an unregulated sale where a prohibited person can purchase a firearm because a background check cannot be run by a private person.

I wouldn't even know if my brother was prohibited from possessing a firearm because I couldn't run a background check. I know he wasn't a convicted felon but he could be under a court restraining order for domestic violence or for mental health issues establishing a prohibited status that I'd be unaware of.
I purchased seven rifles from my son's mother-in-law because her kids would sell them to anybody and I wanted the grand son to have them. I also purchased a pistol from my Brother-in-law. There is a document you are supposed to fill out and keep. I did...; Did you?

I have yet to hear any serious politician suggest Federal legislation that such sales should be subject to government control or regulation. It's a third rail of the gun control argument.

And all the background checks in the world won't change one's ability to purchase privately. Whether from the trunk of a Buick or from a neighbor.
But Gun shows are the current target chosen by the anti gun politicians of the left. And it just ain't so.

What we don't do and we should, is lock people up who use guns illegally. We should not allow plea downs so the gun charge doesn't send them to jail as they were intended to do. BTW, this would not put many more in our crowded jails, It would put them, the same perps, in jail with a gun conviction instead of simple assault on their record.

What also isn't so is the sale of lethal knives, power tools and cars.
No amount of regulations and controls will stop the use of innovation to use whatever to kill our neighbor. Unless we ae all able and willing to live with the loss of personal freedom.
Where would you draw the line?

FREEDOM. It's messy and has it's costs. Deal with it, or we leave personal freedom on the trash heap of history.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: Dem-ordered study to expose illegal online gun sales backfires

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Over 300,000 Americans have been killed from the use of Guns in the last decade.
300000 in a decade? Chump change; we abort a baby a minute in America.

Cry me a river.
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