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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries at the General Forum; In response to the high murder rate in St. Louis, the mayor wants people to turn in their gun to ...

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Old 12-15-2017, 04:44 PM
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Default St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries

In response to the high murder rate in St. Louis, the mayor wants people to turn in their gun to receive groceries.

Quote:
She will do this via the kind of buyback program that Democrats in other cities have unsuccessfully implemented around the country.

On December 8, 2017, KSDK reported that St. Louis had witnessed more murders in 2017 than in any year since 1995. On December 11 the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department listed the number of murders, year-to-date, at 197.

The SLMPD shows that 185 of those 197 murders were carried out with firearms. One hundred sixty-two of the victims were black males and 22 were black females. Ten victims were Hispanic. One hundred twenty-seven of the suspects in the killings were black, and one suspect was white.

Victims were predominantly aged 20-29. Victims aged 30-39 made up the second largest group.

According to Newsweek, Mayor Krewson said, 展e can稚 incarcerate our way out of this situation. So she plans to offer the citizens of St. Louis grocery cards in exchange for their guns. She also plans to increase funding for recreational activities.
St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We'll Give You Groceries
Some the comments below the article are hilarious! Here is a sample:

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Yeah, good luck fending off the criminals with a celery stick.
Quote:
With a Glock I can get all the groceries I want...
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Yea right. So when someone breaks in your home in the middle of the night you can hit them in the face with a pie.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries

A pure PR stunt.

Legal gun owners might bring in their unwanted Extra guns, but not one "bad' gun will come off the streets.

This kind of program has been done before. Effect on the crime rate....;
ZERO!
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ctive/1829165/
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Old 12-16-2017, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries

WHAT?? No Justin Bieber or Elton John concert tickets?
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Old 12-16-2017, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries

interesting origin of the term: Guns vs. Butter



Quote:
One theory on the origin of the concept comes from William Jennings Bryan's resignation as United States Secretary of State in the Wilson Administration.[2] At the outbreak of World War I, the leading global exporter of nitrates for gunpowder was Chile. Chile had maintained neutrality during the war and provided nearly all of the US's nitrate requirements. It was also the principal ingredient of chemical fertilizer in farming. The export product was sodium nitrate, a salt mined in the northern part of Chile which is often called Chilean saltpeter.
Quote:
With substantial popular opinion running against US entry into the war, the Bryan resignation and peace campaign (joined prominently with Henry Ford's efforts) became a banner for local versus national interests. However, Bryan was no more pro-German than the infamously nativistic Wilson; his motivation, instead, was to expose and publicize what he considered to be an unconscionable public policy.
Quote:
The National Defense Act of 1916 directed the president to select a site for the artificial production of nitrates within the United States. It was not until September of 1917, several months after the United States entered World War I, that Wilson selected Muscle Shoals, Alabama, after more than a year of competition among political rivals. A deadlock in the Congress was broken when South Carolina Senator Ellison D. Smith sponsored the National Defense Act of 1916 that directed "the Secretary of Agriculture to manufacture nitrates for fertilizers in peace and munitions in war at water power sites designated by the President." This was presented by the news media as "guns and butter."
Quote:
Perhaps the best known use of the phrase (in translation) was in Nazi Germany. In a speech on January 17, 1936, Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels stated: "We can do without butter, but, despite all our love of peace, not without arms. One cannot shoot with butter, but with guns." Referencing the same concept, sometime in the summer of the same year another Nazi official, Hermann Gring, announced in a speech: "Guns will make us powerful; butter will only make us fat."
Quote:
Another use of the phrase was British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's statement, in a 1976 speech she gave at a Kensington Town Hall, in which she said, "The Soviets put guns over butter, but we put almost everything over guns."
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:07 AM
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Default Re: St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
In response to the high murder rate in St. Louis, the mayor wants people to turn in their gun to receive groceries.
Dumb liberals doin' dumb liberal stuff . . .

You just know that they have "tried everything" as the homicide rate has climbed to a nation leading 50/100K. They have revamped their prosecution scheme and judicial practices right? Awwww . . . that's cute you think that!

In 2010 during a forum where Police and federal law enforcement discussed gun crime and how the legal system responds, then St Louis Police Chief Dan Isom lamented:


"One thing we have to be aware of to give context to this whole problem is that we are looking at an urban problem. It痴 much less a suburban or rural problem. It really affects young minorities Hispanic and black males. I think that the suspects devalue life, the victims devalue life, and the system also devalues life. When you look at the shooting victims and suspects in these neighborhoods, you see 20 or 30 felony arrests, with eight convictions.

Often the convictions don稚 result in any jail time at all; they池e getting probation on top of probation. This has caused a lot of us in cities to move toward federal prosecution, because we know on the state level it痴 a hit-and-miss prospect: they池e arrested, they池e convicted, and they come out multiple times.

In Missouri, there痴 a type of probation people can receive, and it has made it very difficult for us to establish a person as a convicted felon. I致e heard other chiefs talking about the fact that a weapons charge in their state is only a misdemeanor offense. But in St. Louis, a weapons violation can turn out to be no offense at all. An individual will get arrested for a weapons charge, which is a felony, and often they plead to that case and get an SIS預 suspended imposition of sentence. It means that if you serve out your probation, which everybody does, that conviction is erased.

So if you池e arrested again with another weapon, you don稚 have a conviction on your record, so you池e not a felon in possession of a weapon. If you continue to get multiple SISs, you never become a convicted felon. These offenders will often show up for other crimes, and if they never have a conviction, then you池e never able to put stiffer charges on them."

Page 10, Guns and Crime: Breaking New Ground By Focusing on the Local Impact, Police Executive Research Forum, 2010 - LINK (2.34MB pdf)


To reasonable people that seems totally ridiculous . . . Who in their right mind would say that repeatedly releasing gun criminals and purging their records again and again is a good response to the gun crime issue in the gun murder capital of the USA?

Certainly that practice has been stopped given the rise in gun crime in St Louis since 2010 . . .



No, criminals going free is still happening and actually it has only worsened.

Study: 40 Percent of Gun Cases in Circuit Attorney痴 Office Dropped Jan. 22, 2015

Judges New Gun Docket Gives Out More Probation Than Prison Time April 27, 2015


It doesn't matter how many people get shot, how effective the police are in catching and arresting bad guys with guns . . . leftist hug-a-thug "criminal justice" systems will hold case clearance rates above protecting citizens and let the thugs out and allow them to continue to wreak havoc.

Over 60% of murders occur in less than 2% of counties in the USA. Invariably those counties are urban hellholes where entrenched democrats / liberals embolden, nurture and protect the bad guys.

And I'm supposed to accept their notion of "reasonable gun control" and surrender my rights?

Never, not one more concession. Until they start practicing "reasonable criminal control" I'm not accepting any BS they have to say.

.
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:43 AM
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Default Re: St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeerleader View Post
Dumb liberals doin' dumb liberal stuff . . .

You just know that they have "tried everything" as the homicide rate has climbed to a nation leading 50/100K. They have revamped their prosecution scheme and judicial practices right? Awwww . . . that's cute you think that!

In 2010 during a forum where Police and federal law enforcement discussed gun crime and how the legal system responds, then St Louis Police Chief Dan Isom lamented:


"One thing we have to be aware of to give context to this whole problem is that we are looking at an urban problem. It痴 much less a suburban or rural problem. It really affects young minorities Hispanic and black males. I think that the suspects devalue life, the victims devalue life, and the system also devalues life. When you look at the shooting victims and suspects in these neighborhoods, you see 20 or 30 felony arrests, with eight convictions.

Often the convictions don稚 result in any jail time at all; they池e getting probation on top of probation. This has caused a lot of us in cities to move toward federal prosecution, because we know on the state level it痴 a hit-and-miss prospect: they池e arrested, they池e convicted, and they come out multiple times.

In Missouri, there痴 a type of probation people can receive, and it has made it very difficult for us to establish a person as a convicted felon. I致e heard other chiefs talking about the fact that a weapons charge in their state is only a misdemeanor offense. But in St. Louis, a weapons violation can turn out to be no offense at all. An individual will get arrested for a weapons charge, which is a felony, and often they plead to that case and get an SIS預 suspended imposition of sentence. It means that if you serve out your probation, which everybody does, that conviction is erased.

So if you池e arrested again with another weapon, you don稚 have a conviction on your record, so you池e not a felon in possession of a weapon. If you continue to get multiple SISs, you never become a convicted felon. These offenders will often show up for other crimes, and if they never have a conviction, then you池e never able to put stiffer charges on them."

Page 10, Guns and Crime: Breaking New Ground By Focusing on the Local Impact, Police Executive Research Forum, 2010 - LINK (2.34MB pdf)


To reasonable people that seems totally ridiculous . . . Who in their right mind would say that repeatedly releasing gun criminals and purging their records again and again is a good response to the gun crime issue in the gun murder capital of the USA?

Certainly that practice has been stopped given the rise in gun crime in St Louis since 2010 . . .



No, criminals going free is still happening and actually it has only worsened.

Study: 40 Percent of Gun Cases in Circuit Attorney痴 Office Dropped Jan. 22, 2015

Judges New Gun Docket Gives Out More Probation Than Prison Time April 27, 2015


It doesn't matter how many people get shot, how effective the police are in catching and arresting bad guys with guns . . . leftist hug-a-thug "criminal justice" systems will hold case clearance rates above protecting citizens and let the thugs out and allow them to continue to wreak havoc.

Over 60% of murders occur in less than 2% of counties in the USA. Invariably those counties are urban hellholes where entrenched democrats / liberals embolden, nurture and protect the bad guys.

And I'm supposed to accept their notion of "reasonable gun control" and surrender my rights?

Never, not one more concession. Until they start practicing "reasonable criminal control" I'm not accepting any BS they have to say.

.
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Old 12-18-2017, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeerleader View Post
Dumb liberals doin' dumb liberal stuff . . .

You just know that they have "tried everything" as the homicide rate has climbed to a nation leading 50/100K. They have revamped their prosecution scheme and judicial practices right? Awwww . . . that's cute you think that!

In 2010 during a forum where Police and federal law enforcement discussed gun crime and how the legal system responds, then St Louis Police Chief Dan Isom lamented:


"One thing we have to be aware of to give context to this whole problem is that we are looking at an urban problem. It痴 much less a suburban or rural problem. It really affects young minorities Hispanic and black males. I think that the suspects devalue life, the victims devalue life, and the system also devalues life. When you look at the shooting victims and suspects in these neighborhoods, you see 20 or 30 felony arrests, with eight convictions.

Often the convictions don稚 result in any jail time at all; they池e getting probation on top of probation. This has caused a lot of us in cities to move toward federal prosecution, because we know on the state level it痴 a hit-and-miss prospect: they池e arrested, they池e convicted, and they come out multiple times.

In Missouri, there痴 a type of probation people can receive, and it has made it very difficult for us to establish a person as a convicted felon. I致e heard other chiefs talking about the fact that a weapons charge in their state is only a misdemeanor offense. But in St. Louis, a weapons violation can turn out to be no offense at all. An individual will get arrested for a weapons charge, which is a felony, and often they plead to that case and get an SIS預 suspended imposition of sentence. It means that if you serve out your probation, which everybody does, that conviction is erased.

So if you池e arrested again with another weapon, you don稚 have a conviction on your record, so you池e not a felon in possession of a weapon. If you continue to get multiple SISs, you never become a convicted felon. These offenders will often show up for other crimes, and if they never have a conviction, then you池e never able to put stiffer charges on them."

Page 10, Guns and Crime: Breaking New Ground By Focusing on the Local Impact, Police Executive Research Forum, 2010 - LINK (2.34MB pdf)

To reasonable people that seems totally ridiculous . . . Who in their right mind would say that repeatedly releasing gun criminals and purging their records again and again is a good response to the gun crime issue in the gun murder capital of the USA?

Certainly that practice has been stopped given the rise in gun crime in St Louis since 2010 . . .



No, criminals going free is still happening and actually it has only worsened.

Study: 40 Percent of Gun Cases in Circuit Attorney痴 Office Dropped Jan. 22, 2015

Judges New Gun Docket Gives Out More Probation Than Prison Time April 27, 2015


It doesn't matter how many people get shot, how effective the police are in catching and arresting bad guys with guns . . . leftist hug-a-thug "criminal justice" systems will hold case clearance rates above protecting citizens and let the thugs out and allow them to continue to wreak havoc.

Over 60% of murders occur in less than 2% of counties in the USA. Invariably those counties are urban hellholes where entrenched democrats / liberals embolden, nurture and protect the bad guys.

And I'm supposed to accept their notion of "reasonable gun control" and surrender my rights?

Never, not one more concession. Until they start practicing "reasonable criminal control" I'm not accepting any BS they have to say.

.
I sometimes think the Probation and Kid gloves treatment of Gun Assault offenders is done on purpose. The more gun crimes committed, the more "weight" is applied to the anti gun arguments.
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
I sometimes think the Probation and Kid gloves treatment of Gun Assault offenders is done on purpose. The more gun crimes committed, the more "weight" is applied to the anti gun arguments.

Punish the bad guys? That is only an imaginary solution to the bleeding hearts in power.

That is because the goal is complete confiscation. But only complete imbeciles with the IQ of a dingleberry think it is for the public good that more gun laws should be passed. Some imbeciles even go as far as whining that they don't have time to enforce existing gun laws, so they welcome more laws.

The best thing for pro-gun people to do is to tell the anti-gun people to go chew a bag of prunes and recycle the results.
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Old 12-19-2017, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
I sometimes think the Probation and Kid gloves treatment of Gun Assault offenders is done on purpose. The more gun crimes committed, the more "weight" is applied to the anti gun arguments.
That's the siren song of gun control, a myriad of laws that don't get enforced beget criminals who violate with impunity. The ineffectiveness of those laws is held up as evidence that more laws are needed.

Never forget too that these criminals that never attain felon status retain the right to vote . . .

The murder rate by county:



The familiar red / blue map for the 2016 Presidential election, by county:

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Old 12-19-2017, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: St. Louis Mayor: Give Us Your Guns, We値l Give You Groceries

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
I sometimes think the Probation and Kid gloves treatment of Gun Assault offenders is done on purpose. The more gun crimes committed, the more "weight" is applied to the anti gun arguments.
we have more prisoners than any other modern country.
not enough room. too many nonviolent drug offenders
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