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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss Guns and mentally ill at the General Forum; Senate wants to block rule on guns and mentally ill WASHINGTON (AP) The Republican-led Senate is moving to block ...

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Old 02-15-2017, 03:37 AM
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Default Guns and mentally ill

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Senate wants to block rule on guns and mentally ill

WASHINGTON (AP) The Republican-led Senate is moving to block an Obama-era regulation that would prevent an estimated 75,000 people with mental disorders from being able to purchase a firearm.
The Obama administration sought to strengthen the federal background check system by including the names of Social Security beneficiaries with mental impairments who also need a third party to manage their benefits.
With a Republican ally in the White House, the GOP is moving aggressively on gun rights measures. The House earlier this month voted for the resolution blocking the rule. Senate approval on Tuesday would send the measure to President Donald Trump, who is expected to sign it.
Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, said the regulation unfairly stigmatizes the disabled and infringes on their constitutional right to bear arms. He said that the mental disorders covered through the regulation are filled with "vague characteristics that do not fit into the federal mentally defective standard" prohibiting someone from buying or owning a gun.
Grassley cited eating and sleep disorders as examples of illnesses that could allow a beneficiary to be reported to the background check system if they also need a third party to manage their benefits.
"If a specific individual is likely to be violent due to the nature of their mental illness, then the government should have to prove it," Grassley said.
The regulation was crafted as part of President Barack Obama's efforts to strengthen the background check system in the wake of the 2012 massacre of 20 young students and six staff at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Adam Lanza, a 20-year-old man with a variety of impairments, including Asperger's syndrome and obsessive-compulsive disorder, shot and killed his mother at their home, then went to school where he killed the students, adults and himself.
Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., said he didn't know how he could explain to his constituents that Congress was making it easier rather than harder for people with serious mental illness to have a gun.
"If you can't manage your own financial affairs, how can we expect that you're going to be a responsible steward of a dangerous, lethal firearm," Murphy said.
Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., argued that anyone who thinks they're treated unfairly can appeal, and are likely to win if they're not a danger to themselves or others. But Grassley said federal law requires a formal hearing and judgment before depriving someone of owning a firearm due to mental illness.
"The Second Amendment, as a fundamental right, requires the government to carry the burden to show a person has a dangerous mental illness," Grassley said. "This regulation obviously and simply does not achieve that."
Gun rights groups such as the NRA are supporting the effort to repeal the Obama-era regulation. The American Civil Liberties Union has joined with the NRA in fighting the regulation, as has an independent federal agency charged with advising the president and Congress on government policy. The National Council on Disability said there is no nexus between the inability to manage money and the ability to safely possess and use a firearm.
I am all for gun ownership, but I don't know on this one. I mean it does seem a little silly to allow mentally ill to have guns if they can't even manage their money and we do restrict guns among the mentally ill anyway, but i guess the good thing from it the right will have to act like they like the ACLU.
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:37 AM
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Default Re: Guns and mentally ill

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Originally Posted by Mellon_Collie View Post
I am all for gun ownership, but I don't know on this one. I mean it does seem a little silly to allow mentally ill to have guns if they can't even manage their money and we do restrict guns among the mentally ill anyway, but i guess the good thing from it the right will have to act like they like the ACLU.
Using the standard that declares Trump a racist because White supremacist groups endorse him the ACLU now supports every policy of the NRA. As we "know" from the partisan exploitation of shooting victims the NRA is a terrorist organization thus the ACLU supports terrorism.
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:00 AM
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Default Re: Guns and mentally ill

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Originally Posted by Mellon_Collie View Post
I am all for gun ownership, but I don't know on this one. I mean it does seem a little silly to allow mentally ill to have guns if they can't even manage their money and we do restrict guns among the mentally ill anyway, but i guess the good thing from it the right will have to act like they like the ACLU.
So, you believe that because someone can't manage their money, they shouldn't legally own a gun? Well, you just covered more than half the friggin' nation on that one.

As stated in the your quote, the definition of 'mentally ill' is vague at best. That might include anyone on anti-depressants, or someone who went through grief counseling. How far into HIPPA do we want to violate someone's medical records?

The category of 'mental illness' must be redefined to apply it to limit a right to bare arms, not this out of focus statement they are trying to use.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: Guns and mentally ill

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
So, you believe that because someone can't manage their money, they shouldn't legally own a gun? Well, you just covered more than half the friggin' nation on that one.

As stated in the your quote, the definition of 'mentally ill' is vague at best. That might include anyone on anti-depressants, or someone who went through grief counseling. How far into HIPPA do we want to violate someone's medical records?

The category of 'mental illness' must be redefined to apply it to limit a right to bare arms, not this out of focus statement they are trying to use.
The proposed law as I understand it includes not only those who can't, but those who don't want to. And there's the rub. Theoretically that would include those who pay bills on line.

Aside from the privacy issue and the government establishing databases, which, if you can establish a list of those who can't, then you can establish a list of those who can, there are other issues.

I hate incrementalism ad slippery slopes. This is both.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: Guns and mentally ill

There is only one law needed for intentional misuse of weapons, whether one is sane or mentally ill. In addition, as per what I saw posted earlier, this post is not meant for people who cower behind the IGNORE button.
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