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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss First Time At A Gun Show at the General Forum; Originally Posted by jimbo The seller does. When that seller is you, then you have that right. When that seller ...

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2015, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: First Time At A Gun Show

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
The seller does. When that seller is you, then you have that right. When that seller is me, it's my, not your, choice.

Since you are mostly busted here, you are now attempting to move the conversation to the buyer. I'll concede that one. If I am the buyer, I can move on if I don't like your conditions of sale. I can also move my business as a buyer from you to a gun store, or from one store to another. I thought that was clear.

BTW. They do not have the right to manufacture their own weapon. Manufacture is also regulated.
The point remains that the backgound check is a condition of sale and not a condition of purchase. It's the seller, not the buyer, that imposes the conditions of sale. Now that can be voluntary (which I advocate) or mandatory (that I oppose for private sales) but it's still a condition of sale imposed by (and/or on) the seller and not a condition of purchase by the buyer. The buyer never has to agree to the conditions of sale, including a background check, and only does so voluntarily.

Only the commercial manufacture of firearms is regulated. To my knowledge the manufacture of a firearm exclusively for personal use that will never be sold remains virtually unregulated. Of course certain types of firearms, such as fully automatic weapons and sawed-off shotguns, do have conditions of possession imposed under the law.

I recently built a cannon and I didn't require any permits or licenses when I "manufactured" the cannon because it's exclusively for my personal use and enjoyment and is not intended for commerical sale. I could unquestionably do the same thing by manufacturing a rifle, shotgun or handgun so long as I abide by the laws related to the end item configuration of these firearms (e.g. I can't lawfully manufacture a "sawed-off" shotgun because they're unlawful to possess). We also know that many companies offer firerarm "kits" and the person that "manufactures" a firearm from these kits doesn't require a license or permit to do so.
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: First Time At A Gun Show

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The point remains that the backgound check is a condition of sale and not a condition of purchase. It's the seller, not the buyer, that imposes the conditions of sale. Now that can be voluntary (which I advocate) or mandatory (that I oppose for private sales) but it's still a condition of sale imposed by (and/or on) the seller and not a condition of purchase by the buyer. The buyer never has to agree to the conditions of sale, including a background check, and only does so voluntarily.

Only the commercial manufacture of firearms is regulated. To my knowledge the manufacture of a firearm exclusively for personal use that will never be sold remains virtually unregulated. Of course certain types of firearms, such as fully automatic weapons and sawed-off shotguns, do have conditions of possession imposed under the law.

I recently built a cannon and I didn't require any permits or licenses when I "manufactured" the cannon because it's exclusively for my personal use and enjoyment and is not intended for commerical sale. I could unquestionably do the same thing by manufacturing a rifle, shotgun or handgun so long as I abide by the laws related to the end item configuration of these firearms (e.g. I can't lawfully manufacture a "sawed-off" shotgun because they're unlawful to possess). We also know that many companies offer firerarm "kits" and the person that "manufactures" a firearm from these kits doesn't require a license or permit to do so.
That is not true, certain firearms components are assigned a serial number and regulated like the sales of a.complete gun.
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: First Time At A Gun Show

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That is not true, certain firearms components are assigned a serial number and regulated like the sales of a.complete gun.
This is true when a licensed Manufacturer is selling a gun to the public. Usually the receiver has this number, and is the regulated part.

For private building of a fire arm not for sale I think Shiva is correct.

I would also note that indeed it would be a rare circumstance were a self made arm were used in an unlawful way. Rarely do these firearms ever get created by anyone to begin with...

Regards, Kirk
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: First Time At A Gun Show

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I've not seen one piece of legislation passed in either house of Congress that authorized the confiscation of lawfully purchased firearms.

Yes, there are apparently very stupid people in both the "gun lobby" and "gun control lobby" if they believe that unconstitutional legislation, such as confiscation of lawfully purchased firearms which would require turning a lawful purchase into unlawful ownership, will survive a Constitutional test by the US Supreme Court.

Which side is "more stupid" is open to debate because both sides are unquestionably stupid.
The statement that no piece of legislation passed by either house of Congress authorized gun grabbing is disingenuous. Second amendment opponents have proposed numerous gun seizure bills and gun grabbers like Senator Feinstein have bemoaned the lack of majority support for confiscation.

The SCOTUS has abandoned it's self appointed role as an interpreter of the Constitution in favor of acting as a super legislature. Would you favor trusting your basic free speech rights to a majority of political appointees or would it be better to defeat bills which infringe upon the right in the legislature?
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Old 01-05-2016, 08:47 PM
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Post Re: First Time At A Gun Show

Incidentally, for all those who are repeating the whole "no such thing as a gun show loophole" absurdity, here's something to chew on.
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/gun...nd-checks.html
"We think it's reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. No loopholes anywhere for anyone," he said. "That means closing the Hinckley loophole so the records of those adjudicated mentally ill are in the system. This isn't new, or a change of position, or a concession. I've been on record on this point consistently, from our national meeting in Denver, to paid national ads and position papers, to news interviews and press appearances."
The head of the NRA admitting it's a loophole.
AND he was asking for it to be closed.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2016, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: First Time At A Gun Show

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Incidentally, for all those who are repeating the whole "no such thing as a gun show loophole" absurdity, here's something to chew on.
I can't wait for the Black Market gun loophole to be looked at next.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2016, 09:06 PM
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Post Re: First Time At A Gun Show

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I can't wait for the Black Market gun loophole to be looked at next.

A black market or underground economy is a market in which goods or services are traded illegally.

Can't really call it a "loophole" when it's already illegal.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2016, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: First Time At A Gun Show

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

A black market or underground economy is a market in which goods or services are traded illegally.

Can't really call it a "loophole" when it's already illegal.(pornographic emoticon removed by Manitou)
Sarcasm readers are often thrown off by their sarchasm.
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