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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rates o at the General Forum; Originally Posted by 762nato I presented evidence of Harvard's bias. No you didn't. And what's more important is you didn't ...

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Old 07-26-2015, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rat

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Originally Posted by 762nato View Post
I presented evidence of Harvard's bias.
No you didn't. And what's more important is you didn't provide evidence that the study was biased.

And as for your previous statement, nobody said the guns were THE cause of crime, but the study itself suggests that higher rates of firearm ownership tend to give us higher rates of crimes committed with the use of firearms.

Guns don't commit crimes, but boy do they make it easier.
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Old 07-26-2015, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rat

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Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
No you didn't. And what's more important is you didn't provide evidence that the study was biased.

And as for your previous statement, nobody said the guns were THE cause of crime, but the study itself suggests that higher rates of firearm ownership tend to give us higher rates of crimes committed with the use of firearms.

Guns don't commit crimes, but boy do they make it easier.
The NRA has lots of studies that are contrary to Harvard's study.

Since they are in "the business" of firearms and how they are used in crime, and have much more experience, I have to go with them... Harvard is a rookie at this.. Not to mention Harvard is a liberal school..

Regards, Kirk
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Old 07-26-2015, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rat

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Guns don't commit crimes, but boy do they make it easier.
Would it make you feel better if crimes were committed by knives, or bow and arrow?
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Old 07-26-2015, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rat

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Nope, it's over scant details ...
Yet again, your reply does nothing to refute my actual point.
You complaining your ignorance involoves "scant details" does not repudiate the fact you are arguing from ignorance.


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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Thank you for blurbing about how that is SUPPOSED to work. (Which everyone probably already knows.)
If you did, you wouldn't have made the complaint you did.


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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Now show how that was done correctly in the STUDY. Oh wait .... you can't, 'cause you haven't even actually READ the damn thing at this point, have you?
Again, you're arguing from ignorance.
You're demanding I disprove an argument you can't even make because you don't have the information. It's an endless fool's errand as you can pile on stupid challenge after stupid challenge.


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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
$31.50 to get access for 24 hours ... and you really expect anyone here to believe you read it before you posted this thread?
Yet again you lie.
I never claimed I read the study.


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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
HERE is the correct link that will work.
The one I gave is correct.
So now, stop insisting I disprove your suspicions and DOCUMENT whether your questions are valid or not.
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Old 07-26-2015, 03:05 PM
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Post Re: New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rat

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Now, since we now have ACTUAL full access to the article to fact/procedure-check...
I find it hilarious you state this, and then you didn't even read the study, did you...

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
... here is a separate article showing how this study falls short and FAILS to show what it claims .... and as already pointed out in this thread to be where the devil is often in the details over 'studies' like that, it shows there are issues in their CONTROL variables.
"But their paper (available here) isn’t testing what they claim. It isn’t testing whether increased gun ownership causes crime rates to increase. The study is far too simplistic and doesn’t include even the basic control variables that are typically included in other crime studies.
Fascinating claim.
It's amusing to note that the author never validates this claim based on the actual study.

Let's elaborate...


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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Here is a simple example. Many people point to the fact that the UK has both a lower homicide and gun ownership rate than the United States.
And then the "simple example" SAYS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the study in question. This study wasn't on the U.S. It was on United States state comparison.

It's a classic misdirection of "Let me prove to you what's wrong with this apple by pointing to an orange."

And of course, gun rights enthusiasts who are eager to hear NOTHING negative about gun ownership jump right on that orange and insist we shouldn't pay attention to the actual apple.
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Old 07-26-2015, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rat

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Nobody has a "More guns, Less crime" hypothesis...
Except, they do.
There's even a freakin' book by that name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2013...ess-crime-2013


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But a whole bunch of people have a "More RESPONSIBLE gun ownership, Less crime" hypothesis...
This attempted distinction is so much cow excrement on multiple levels.
1) If this were true, then WHY do gun rights people fight so hard against legislation attempting to ensure "More RESPONSIBLE gun ownership".

2) Show me any right-wing study that tries to delineate between responsible gun ownership and irresponsible gun ownership with respect to crime rates.


What you said sounds nice but it's just not realistic for what NRA types say and do.
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Old 07-26-2015, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rat

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Originally Posted by 300 H and H View Post
The NRA has lots of studies that are contrary to Harvard's study.

Since they are in "the business" of firearms and how they are used in crime, and have much more experience, I have to go with them... Harvard is a rookie at this.. Not to mention Harvard is a liberal school..

Regards, Kirk
So you believe NRA-sponsored studies, the NRA that's a lobbyist for gun manufacturers.

Guys, smoking is fine because Marlboro said so.
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Old 07-26-2015, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rat

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Guys, smoking is fine because Marlboro said so.
America has ISIS on the run because Obama said so.
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rat

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Since President Obama’s election the number of concealed handgun permits has soared, growing from 4.6 million in 2007 to over 12.8 million this year. Among the findings in our report:

-- The number of concealed handgun permits is increasing at an ever- increasing rate. Over the past year, 1.7 million additional new permits have been issued – a 15.4% increase in just one single year. This is the largest ever single-year increase in the number of concealed handgun permits. [...]

-- Between 2007 and 2014, murder rates have fallen from 5.6 to 4.2 (preliminary estimates) per 100,000. This represents a 25% drop in the murder rate at the same time that the percentage of the adult population with permits soared by 156%. Overall violent crime also fell by 25 percent over that period of time.

-- States with the largest increase in permits have seen the largest relative drops in murder rates.
Report: As Conceal Carry Permits Climb, Murder Rates Drop - Leah Barkoukis

New Study: Over 12.8 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw by far the largest increase ever in the number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org

OOPS, heavens to betsy we have competing reports, I wonder which is true?
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: New Study Is Latest to Find That Higher Rates of Gun Ownership Lead to Higher Rat

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Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
So you believe NRA-sponsored studies, the NRA that's a lobbyist for gun manufacturers.

Guys, smoking is fine because Marlboro said so.
I would believe them before some left wing school...

Liberals have been caught time and time again, twisting the truth. It's like candy in an unattended candy jar.. I guess those on the left don't have any will power, or ethics.

Regards, Kirk
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