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Gun Control/2nd Amendment Discuss Murder Rates Higher in States With Restrictive Concealed Carry Laws at the General Forum; New Gun Control Study: Murder Rates Higher in States With Restrictive Concealed Carry Laws | Fox News Insider Most people ...

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Old 01-07-2014, 01:03 PM
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Default Murder Rates Higher in States With Restrictive Concealed Carry Laws

New Gun Control Study: Murder Rates Higher in States With Restrictive Concealed Carry Laws | Fox News Insider

Most people who don't have their heads stuffed up their collective arses know this, but I'm sure the gun grabbers will continue to to perpetrate their lie that guns are bad.
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Murder Rates Higher in States With Restrictive Concealed Carry Laws

"Correlation does not equal causation."
~cnredd

It's a nice theory with some common sense backing, but lacking empirical data that makes a direct connection between the two, you're creating a connection, not actually seeing it. Show us a study where criminals openly state that the possibility of victim having gun deters them from attacking or one that shows where the number of attacks were the same, but the number of instances where a CC stopped an attacker using their weapon of choice matches the reduction in murders and you've got something. But this kind of stuff doesn't help the argument one bit. I'm a huge supporter of CC and would even back a law requiring every sane, adult who's never been convicted of a felony to be armed at all times, but arguments like this do NOTHING to back the idea that an armed populace is a more peaceful one. You have to assume that the connection is there and so far there isn't the connection based on science and not assumptions (no matter how much common sense you apply).
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Murder Rates Higher in States With Restrictive Concealed Carry Laws

Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
"Correlation does not equal causation."
~cnredd

It's a nice theory with some common sense backing, but lacking empirical data that makes a direct connection between the two, you're creating a connection, not actually seeing it. Show us a study where criminals openly state that the possibility of victim having gun deters them from attacking or one that shows where the number of attacks were the same, but the number of instances where a CC stopped an attacker using their weapon of choice matches the reduction in murders and you've got something. But this kind of stuff doesn't help the argument one bit. I'm a huge supporter of CC and would even back a law requiring every sane, adult who's never been convicted of a felony to be armed at all times, but arguments like this do NOTHING to back the idea that an armed populace is a more peaceful one. You have to assume that the connection is there and so far there isn't the connection based on science and not assumptions (no matter how much common sense you apply).

Criminals Fear The Armed…. Don’t Be A VICTIM! | THE WAKING GIANT

This kind of "stuff" helps a lot if you would care to do the research. There are a number of studies out that support the notion that those states which have fewer laws prohibiting the honest citizen from obtaining guns do deter violence. But, those who are lazy and refuse to research all aspects come up with excuses as to why they don't support one piece of the puzzle, thus dismissing everything as not helping.....
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Murder Rates Higher in States With Restrictive Concealed Carry Laws

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
Most people who don't have their heads stuffed up their collective arses know this, but I'm sure the gun grabbers will continue to to perpetrate their lie that guns are bad.
The gun weenies are slowly but surely being shown that it is not about guns, but about control.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Murder Rates Higher in States With Restrictive Concealed Carry Laws

Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
"Correlation does not equal causation."
~cnredd

It's a nice theory with some common sense backing, but lacking empirical data that makes a direct connection between the two, you're creating a connection, not actually seeing it. Show us a study where criminals openly state that the possibility of victim having gun deters them from attacking or one that shows where the number of attacks were the same, but the number of instances where a CC stopped an attacker using their weapon of choice matches the reduction in murders and you've got something. But this kind of stuff doesn't help the argument one bit. I'm a huge supporter of CC and would even back a law requiring every sane, adult who's never been convicted of a felony to be armed at all times, but arguments like this do NOTHING to back the idea that an armed populace is a more peaceful one. You have to assume that the connection is there and so far there isn't the connection based on science and not assumptions (no matter how much common sense you apply).
Also, the "state" is wayyyyy too big of a region...I'd go by city, since areas just outside of big cities can be 100% in the other direction...
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: Murder Rates Higher in States With Restrictive Concealed Carry Laws

Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
"Correlation does not equal causation."
~cnredd

It's a nice theory with some common sense backing, but lacking empirical data that makes a direct connection between the two, you're creating a connection, not actually seeing it. Show us a study where criminals openly state that the possibility of victim having gun deters them from attacking or one that shows where the number of attacks were the same, but the number of instances where a CC stopped an attacker using their weapon of choice matches the reduction in murders and you've got something. But this kind of stuff doesn't help the argument one bit. I'm a huge supporter of CC and would even back a law requiring every sane, adult who's never been convicted of a felony to be armed at all times, but arguments like this do NOTHING to back the idea that an armed populace is a more peaceful one. You have to assume that the connection is there and so far there isn't the connection based on science and not assumptions (no matter how much common sense you apply).
It seems to me that to get that sort of data, you'd have to get a lot of unindicted and unarrested and generally unsuspected criminals to show up at a research center with two number two pencils, a packed lunch and a photo ID and then fill out a survey listing the times when they would have robbed, raped, or murdered someone but were deterred or not deterred by State concealed weapons laws.

We aren't going to get that kind of hard data, not ever. So if we are to make decisions, they'll have to be informed by anecdotal evidence, and rational suppositions. (Like most conscious choices we make in life.)
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