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Global Warming & Climate Discuss Global Warming: A Closer look at the Numbers at the General Discussion; To afirm the above read this. There is more at the site. I just used page 1 http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek...bonDioxide.pdf Prof. Shakhashiri ...

View Poll Results: How do you feel about global warming now?
I believe that it is manmade. 4 66.67%
I did believe that it is manmade, but have been convinced that it s fraud. 0 0%
I continue to believe that global warming is fraud. 2 33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-29-2008, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Global Warming: A Closer look at the Numbers

To afirm the above read this. There is more at the site. I just used page 1

http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek...bonDioxide.pdf

Prof. Shakhashiri Science Is Fun in the Lab of Shakhashiri General Chemistry
CARBON DIOXIDE, CO2
Carbon dioxide, CO2, is one of the gases in our atmosphere, being uniformly distributed over the
earth's surface at a concentration of about 0.033% or 330 ppm. Commercially, CO2 finds uses as a refrigerant
(dry ice is solid CO2), in beverage carbonation, and in fire extinguishers. Because the concentration of
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is low, it is not practical to obtain the gas by extracting it from air. Most
commercial carbon dioxide is recovered as a by-product of other processes, such as the production of
ethanol by fermentation and the manufacture of ammonia. Some CO2 is obtained from the combustion of
coke or other carbon-containing fuels.
C(coke) + O2(g) xxv CO2(g)
Carbon dioxide is released into our atmosphere when carbon-containing fossil fuels such as oil, natural gas,
and coal are burned in air. As a result of the tremendous world-wide consumption of such fossil fuels, the
amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased over the past century, now rising at a rate of about 1 ppm
per year. Major changes in global climate could result from a continued increase in CO2 concentration.
In addition to being a component of the atmosphere, carbon dioxide also dissolves in the water of
the oceans. At room temperature, the solubility of carbon dioxide is about 90 cm3 of CO2 per 100 mL of
water. In aqueous solution, carbon dioxide exists in many forms. First, it simply dissolves.
CO2(g) xxv CO2(aq)
Then, an equilibrium is established between the dissolved CO2 and H2CO3, carbonic acid.
CO2(aq) + H2O(l) øôõ H2CO3(aq)
Only about 1% of the dissolved CO2 exists as H2CO3. Carbonic acid is a weak acid which dissociates in two
steps.
H2CO3 øôõ H+ + HCO3G Ka1 = 4.2 × 10G7
HCO3G øôõ H+ + CO3
2G Ka2 = 4.8 × 10G11
As carbon dioxide dissolves in sea water, an equilibrium is established involving the carbonate ion, CO3
2G.
The carbonate anion interacts with cations in seawater. According to the solubility rules, “all carbonates are
insoluble except those of ammonium and Group IA elements.” Therefore, the carbonate ions cause the
precipitation of certain ions. For example, Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions precipitate from large bodies of water as
carbonates. For CaCO3, the value of Ksp is 5 × 10G9, and for MgCO3, Ksp is 2 × 10G3. Extensive deposits
of limestone (CaCO3) and dolomite (mixed CaCO3 and MgCO3) have been formed in this way. Calcium
carbonate is also the main constituent of marble, chalk, pearls, coral reefs, and clam shells.
Although “insoluble” in water, calcium carbonate dissolves in acidic solutions. The carbonate ion
behaves as a Brønsted base.
CaCO3(s) + 2 H+(aq) xxv Ca2+(aq) + H2CO3(aq)
The aqueous carbonic acid dissociates, producing carbon dioxide gas.
H2CO3(aq) xxv H2O(l) + CO2(g)
In nature, surface water often becomes acidic because atmospheric CO2 dissolves in it. This acidic
water can dissolve limestone:
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Old 03-29-2008, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Global Warming: A Closer look at the Numbers

Using just the beginning of this which continues up to 2004.

TRENDS: ATMOSPHERIC CARBON DIOXIDE

Atmospheric carbon dioxide record from Mauna Loa

Graphics Digital Data

C.D. Keeling and T.P. Whorf

Carbon Dioxide Research Group, Scripps Institution of Oceanography, University of California, La Jolla, California 92093-0444, U.S.A.
Period of Record
1958-2004


Methods
Air samples at Mauna Loa are collected continuously from air intakes at the top of four 7-m towers and one 27-m tower. Four air samples are collected each hour for the purpose of determining the CO2 concentration. Determinations of CO2 are made by using a Siemens Ultramat 3 nondispersive infrared gas analyzer with a water vapor freeze trap. This analyzer registers the concentration of CO2 in a stream of air flowing at ~0.5 L/min. Every 30 minutes, the flow is replaced by a stream of calibrating gas or "working reference gas". In December 1983, CO2-in-N2 calibration gases were replaced with the currently used CO2-in-air calibration gases. These calibration gases and other reference gases are compared periodically to determine the instrument sensitivity and to check for possible contamination in the air-handling system. These reference gases are themselves calibrated against specific standard gases whose CO2 concentrations are determined manometrically. Greater details about the sampling methods at Mauna Loa are given in Keeling et al. (1982) and Keeling et al. (2002).


Hourly averages of atmospheric CO2 concentration, wind speed, and wind direction are plotted as a basis for selecting data for further processing. Data are selected for periods of steady hourly data to within ~0.5 parts per million by volume (ppmv); at least six consecutive hours of steady data are required to form a daily average. Greater details about the data selection criteria used at Mauna Loa are given in Bacastow et al. (1985).

And from the Energy Companies themselves, it covers from 2000 to 2008:
CO2 Capture Project Trying to present both sides.
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Old 03-29-2008, 06:50 PM
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The above was page 1 of about 178,000 if anyone cares to look for more here is the link. And the poll is still 66.XX to 33.XX, which only proves some people will beat a dead horse!

CO 2 - Google Search

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Old 03-29-2008, 06:57 PM
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Gosh I guess later come quicker than I thought. Using Climate Change as the search I found this, only 13 hours ago.

Climate change threatens human rights: UN - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Climate change threatens human rights: UN
Posted Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:28pm AEDT

The United Nations has officially declared that climate change is a threat to the human rights of people living in small island states.

The UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has said that tackling climate change is one of his top priorities, and now the UN Human Rights Council has made it official.

I rest my point with the above....... If you would like to disagree I will still refute you. It is happening and that is the main fact...

The resolution, which was passed unanimously in Geneva, recognises that climate change is not just a threat to the global environment and economy, but to life itself.

Environmental experts say rising sea levels, violent storms, droughts and floods could all become more common because of global warming, and if they do, millions of people could be deprived of their homes, food and clean water.

Last edited by mlurp; 03-29-2008 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Global Warming: A Closer look at the Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
What puuuuurty pictures we have in the posts before this one...

Nice way to get people to believe in emotions rather than facts...

Global warming cleared on ice shelf collapse rap
From your same article:


The professor continued: "I am not denying global warming. For instance, Greenland, in the northern hemisphere, does seem to be going. But Greenland's ice cap - Greeland is quite far south - is a last survivor from the ice age and only its height protects it. The more that cap melts, the more it will continue to melt as it gets lower and warmer. But Antarctica is different. Even in the Arctic I am sceptical of some claims that 40 per cent of the sea ice has already vanished, and that what remains is drastically thinning.
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Old 03-30-2008, 10:49 PM
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Default Thai temple fights off encroaching tide as world sea levels rise

This just in. And I remind each poster I don't care if humans or the period of time is the cause, but after several thousands of years of human activity one has to asume we have an effect,
Did anyone know of the little ice ages in the late 800 Ad or in 1450's AD. I might have the dates a bit off but the black plauge was during one of these periods.
And this just in.......
I am not looking at the reason to blame that is why I have presented both sides of the story.

But this is real and affeting people right now........


Thai temple fights off encroaching tide as world sea levels rise by Charlie McDonald-Gibson
Sun Mar 30, 12:47 PM ET

Thai temple fights off encroaching tide as world sea levels rise - Yahoo! News

KHUN SAMUT CHIN, Thailand (AFP) - Crabs scuttle across the wet floor of the near-deserted Khun Samut temple, the only building left in a Thai village that has disappeared beneath the rising and advancing sea.

Waging a battle against an encroaching tide that has sent all the villagers fleeing inland, a monk in orange robes and faded tattoos meant to ward off evil spirits stalks the newly-built sea wall, planting mangrove shoots.

Somnuek Atipanya points 20 metres (65 feet) out to sea, where electricity pylons poke out of the water, now useful only for resting marine birds.

"The waves attacked here and they will destroy everything," says Somnuek, chief abbot of this Buddhist temple south of Bangkok which is surrounded by water and accessible only by a concrete walkway.

"I don't know what happened, but when the experts came they told me it was global warning and melting ice in the North Pole."

Over 30 years, the sea around Khun Samut Chin village has engulfed more than one kilometre (0.6 miles) of land, World Bank figures show, mostly because fishermen have cut down mangrove forests -- the Earth's natural sea barrier.

Tourism development, sand mining and damming rivers upstream have also taken their toll in an area naturally prone to coastal erosion.

The community have realised their errors and are trying to replant the mangroves, but the situation may soon be out of their hands as global warming sends sea levels rising and powerful storms lashing the coast.

"The process has been occurring over some time and accelerating with land use changes and local human activity," says Jitendra Shah, the World Bank's environmental coordinator in Thailand.

"Climate change impacts are likely to accelerate the pace and make things worse in the future."

Coastal erosion of varying degrees affects 21 percent of Thailand's coastline, says Greenpeace climate campaigner Tara Buakamsri, citing figures from Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University.

Along the Gulf of Thailand, seaside areas seriously affected by erosion are receding at a rate of five to 20 metres per year.

Climate scientists say that as global warming heats the Earth up, glaciers and polar ice caps will melt and sea waters will expand, sending oceans rising by at least 18 centimetres (7.2 inches), or possibly a great deal more by 2100.

World sea levels rose 3.1 millimetres per year from 1993 to 2003, the Nobel-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says.

This is not good news for the five monks who remain at Khun Samut temple. Despite their best efforts, they may not be able to save the site from the same fate that befell Khun Samut Chin's sunken school and homes.

Visanu Kengsamut, 26, has already moved three times in his life, while his mother -- the village chief -- has fled the crumbling coast and rebuilt her home eight times, and each time the village has paid for its own relocation.

Khun Samut Chin now sits about one kilometre inland from the temple.

"We know that the cause of this is the effects of global warming," says Visanu.

"This problem, everybody should take responsibility and the government should help. If possible, the international community should come to help because they started the problem."

As the world tries to work out a new pact to battle the threat posed by global warming, poorer countries -- who the IPCC says will suffer the most from climate change -- are battling to have their voices heard.

They argue that because the industrialised world was historically most responsible for global warming, they should contribute generously to a fund to help poor countries adapt to the changing world.

The so-called adaptation and mitigation fund will likely be discussed at key United Nations climate change talks in Bangkok from March 31 to April 4.

"Whether or not it is a small contribution or major contribution related to climate change in the past, this community needs to be taken into account when they discuss about the mitigation measure or adaptation fund," says Greenpeace's Tara.

"Because they are facing the impact -- they are one of the first groups in Thailand that is facing the impact."
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Old 03-30-2008, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Global Warming: A Closer look at the Numbers

Where are the rebuttles?
C'mon, c'mon, c'mon!
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:17 PM
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One can't refute the truth when it is plainly placed in their face, right.

The issue isn't why but what the **** do we do now that it is happening!

To debate that man hasn't a hand in it isn't wise.

It is how do we stop the expanding economies and our selves from making the train go faster. Well that is IMHO..........:-)
And besides the poll is double for man has a hand in it. So twice as many believe we have something to do with it. Just like the science on the topic. And I tried to present both sides. Just there wasn't much to say we aren't part of the problem. I put each page and all the searchs I used for each post. I don't care to bother reading over 2 million pages when if I say man had nothing to do with it only 50,000 or less would support that idea.
I do thank each for their thoughts and expressing themselves. I never started to defeat any person. I just believe in posting the truth in all topics. And being an old warrior I can't give up on anything, period. I only know one way forward, fix bayonets and forward. lol

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Old 04-01-2008, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Global Warming: A Closer look at the Numbers

From an article I found in an old news letter (while emptying out my inbox) from January:Scientists Say Bush Stifles Science and Lets Global Leadership Slip | LiveScience
Quote:
...several scientists around the country ...are frustrated by what they view as the White House's morality-based politics that they say ignores scientific evidence, distorts facts and leads to outright censorship of reports and scientists.
Quote:
widespread criticism for Bush's "retardation of research," as one scientist put it, that threatens to knock the country out of its global leadership role in science and technology.
"Science has been seriously undermined by the censorship and alteration of testimony and news releases," said Kevin Trenberth, a climate scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research. "Science and facts are not a factor in decisions, and ideology dominates."
Quote:
"Science establishes facts but facts can unmask bad policy," said Ken Caldeira, a climate and ecology researcher at Stanford University. "Thus good science has been seen as a threat by the Bush administration."
Quote:
Alan W. Harris, senior research scientist at the Space Science Institute at La Canada, Calif., accused the White House of "systematic suppression of scientific evidence that does not support administration plans."
On specific hot-button issues, several researchers voiced similar criticisms.

Joshua Hart, a psychologist at Union College in New York, summarized the frustrations of many researchers.
Quote:
"The administration contributed egregiously to the false impression (among the public) of a scientific 'debate' about the existence and causes of global warming," Hart said.
Scientists Say Bush Stifles Science and Lets Global Leadership Slip | LiveScience

So much for the 'debate' on global warming!
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:56 AM
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Default Re: Global Warming: A Closer look at the Numbers

I'v seen things on History, HGC or some other channel, the same kind of reports and let downs as we discover so much these days. But the war gets it's almighy inflated dollar... lol
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