Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > Political Forums > Elections
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Elections Discuss Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by ShivaTD Anyone that's filled out their own tax forms can read a tax form. The tax forms ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2019, 03:40 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 13,182
Thanks: 11,349
Thanked 9,460 Times in 5,843 Posts
Default Re: Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Anyone that's filled out their own tax forms can read a tax form. The tax forms provide a lot of information and it's in plain sight where it can be read by anyone.

For example Berne Sanders has earned quite a bit of money in the last two years and that shows up on his tax forms that record the income from book sales. It doesn't take an expert to read that information.

Total income for the year is recorded and that provides insight to a person's net worth.

When Mitt Romney published his 2011 tax returns it was easy for me to see that Romney paid a much lower percentage of income in federal taxes on $22 million in income than I paid in 2011 on about $100,000 in income. Romney paid about 14% while I paid closer to 28% because I paid FICA taxes in addition to income taxes while Mitt Romney only paid the capital gains taxes on unearned income. It was easy to see how wrong it was for someone with $22 million in income paying half the effective tax rate compared to someone working 40-60 hours a week with only $100,000 in income.

Tax experts can certainly determine more from a person's tax returns and it doesn't matter who the tax expert is because other tax experts will be checking their conclusions.

I trust me to be able to judge what significance might be found on the tax return. I'll listen to what others have to say but ultimately I'm the judge. Got any problems with that? You can also be a judge to make your own determinations and your determination will be based upon how good the experts are that you're listening to.
So, you've never encountered a tax return where the sources of income are multiple corporate entities and investments, have you. I deal with this stuff and it's not a quick look see, easier ones can be 80+ pages, you start adding in more entities, and it grows exponentially.

Short version, no one's tax returns are REQUIRED to be made public. I'll say again, as I have before ,of there was something to be found, the IRS would have found it long before this pathetic harassment started.
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2019, 03:41 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,427
Thanks: 10,110
Thanked 8,324 Times in 4,930 Posts
Default Re: Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Anyone that's filled out their own tax forms can read a tax form. The tax forms provide a lot of information and it's in plain sight where it can be read by anyone.

For example Berne Sanders has earned quite a bit of money in the last two years and that shows up on his tax forms that record the income from book sales. It doesn't take an expert to read that information.

Total income for the year is recorded and that provides insight to a person's net worth.

When Mitt Romney published his 2011 tax returns it was easy for me to see that Romney paid a much lower percentage of income in federal taxes on $22 million in income than I paid in 2011 on about $100,000 in income. Romney paid about 14% while I paid closer to 28% because I paid FICA taxes in addition to income taxes while Mitt Romney only paid the capital gains taxes on unearned income. It was easy to see how wrong it was for someone with $22 million in income paying half the effective tax rate compared to someone working 40-60 hours a week with only $100,000 in income.

Tax experts can certainly determine more from a person's tax returns and it doesn't matter who the tax expert is because other tax experts will be checking their conclusions.

I trust me to be able to judge what significance might be found on the tax return. I'll listen to what others have to say but ultimately I'm the judge. Got any problems with that? You can also be a judge to make your own determinations and your determination will be based upon how good the experts are that you're listening to.
None of what you say gives you the right to see anybody other than your own's tax returns.

And none of what you say has anything to with qualifications for being President.

What you want is another fishing expedition, and you don't even know whether or not there is a pond. And yes, I've got a problem with that.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jimbo For This Useful Post:
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2019, 03:49 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 13,182
Thanks: 11,349
Thanked 9,460 Times in 5,843 Posts
Default Re: Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
As President Trump continues his campaign efforts for re-election in 2020 (as opposed to making any effort to fulfill his current responsibilities as the President) it may become a moot point. Trump, if he sticks to his guns about not releasing his tax returns (to avoid disclosing criminal, unethical, and/or foreign influence) he's unlikely to be on enough ballots in enough states to win he Presidency.


https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/14/opini...sen/index.html

He already faces a problem that his less than 40% core supporters, even though it represents 90% of voters that have chosen to remain Republicans today, simply isn't enough to win the presidential election. He's also face a Democratic opponent that hasn't been subjected to four years of Republican Congressional investigations where spurious allegations, not findings of wrongdoing, basically slandered the eventual Democratic opponent.

The American people are outraged over Trump not releasing his tax records knowing full well that Trump's trying to hide something from the American people has always been about hiding unethical or unlawful conduct. Trump doesn't want Congress or the American people to know what types of nefarious activities, even if they're not illegal, he's been up to. State legislatures are taking this problem to task by mandating the release of personal tax returns as a criteria for being on the ballot.

There's no Constitutional issue at all. Disclosure or personal finance information is a reasonable requirement for any state to impose on candidates for elective offices. If the candidate is a crook in their personal financial affairs the people have a right to know that up front. If they're not a crook then they have no reason to not disclose tax records of they want to become the president.
Additionally, there will likely be a problem regarding the 'Tax Returns Required' attempt.... it is being questioned, and will continue to be questioned, as an active attempt to end-run the Constitution. Even California Gov. Brown says that it's a slippery slope.

The official words on it aside, how very sad an pathetic people have become in their childish temper tantrums against Trump. To even think this is a valid method of 'screening' political figures, let's put it in the same righteous category as demanding medical records be made public.

So sad for people who think this way. How sad for America, that they feel this is actually a good thing to do.
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2019, 04:56 PM
FrancSevin's Avatar
Runs with scissors
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: St Louis MO
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,492
Thanks: 9,852
Thanked 13,291 Times in 7,289 Posts
Default Re: Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Anyone that's filled out their own tax forms can read a tax form. The tax forms provide a lot of information and it's in plain sight where it can be read by anyone.

For example Berne Sanders has earned quite a bit of money in the last two years and that shows up on his tax forms that record the income from book sales. It doesn't take an expert to read that information.

Total income for the year is recorded and that provides insight to a person's net worth.

When Mitt Romney published his 2011 tax returns it was easy for me to see that Romney paid a much lower percentage of income in federal taxes on $22 million in income than I paid in 2011 on about $100,000 in income. Romney paid about 14% while I paid closer to 28% because I paid FICA taxes in addition to income taxes while Mitt Romney only paid the capital gains taxes on unearned income. It was easy to see how wrong it was for someone with $22 million in income paying half the effective tax rate compared to someone working 40-60 hours a week with only $100,000 in income.

Tax experts can certainly determine more from a person's tax returns and it doesn't matter who the tax expert is because other tax experts will be checking their conclusions.

I trust me to be able to judge what significance might be found on the tax return. I'll listen to what others have to say but ultimately I'm the judge. Got any problems with that? You can also be a judge to make your own determinations and your determination will be based upon how good the experts are that you're listening to.
Others have already beat me to a response for your pathetic argument. Let me just propose that I own ONE small business. Not many large enterprises vertically and horizontally connected like the Trump organization,, just one small business. I guarantee that from my relatively simple straightforward tax return, you could not determine any, ANY time or incident in which I interacted with another entity in an unscrupulous matter or violated one tax law that the IRS would not have already found. Even if I had done so.

You need to be able to compare what I reported to the IRS to what my customers and vendors claim.

Which is why the congress has subpoenaed records from any and all entities with whom Trump has done business.

So, to demand all candidates submit tax records is just the foot in the door to go looking for a crime. The responsibility of "Oversight" is not an authorization to prove innocence in one's life as a prerequisite to office. It is not the job of congress to do such investigations unless there is a report of a crime or there is an issue with something done during the term of office,,,AFTER election. The Democrats are way over the line of reason here. And the line of sanity. They simply cannot violate one's persons or papers without a just cause. Never Trump is not enough. They have nothing.

This entire effort is about finding something, or investigating something, during the four years of Trump's administration. And to be able to say it in the headlines. It is a campaign stunt to delegitimize him. And the left is willing to burn the founding documents to do it. A very dangerous approach for the nation and frankly for the party. Such will backfire in their faces come 2020. The nation will survive the effort, I doubt the People's Party will.
__________________
I am going to hang a Batman Costume in my closet. .......... Just to screw with myself when I get alzheimer's.
sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura.

I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN, I AM A FREEMAN, THE DEMOCRATS WORST NIGHTMARE

Last edited by FrancSevin; 04-25-2019 at 05:04 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FrancSevin For This Useful Post:
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:04 AM
FrancSevin's Avatar
Runs with scissors
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: St Louis MO
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,492
Thanks: 9,852
Thanked 13,291 Times in 7,289 Posts
Default Re: Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

Senator Richard Blumenthal is in agreement with ShivaT. He demands to see Trump's tax returns from when he ran the Trump Corporate companies.

In 2016 his net worth was $ 62 million
In 2017 his net worth was $ 70 million
In 2015 he received a Tax refund of $ 31,475.00

All this on a salary of $174,000 per year.

I think maybe, we ought to have a look at his taxes.
__________________
I am going to hang a Batman Costume in my closet. .......... Just to screw with myself when I get alzheimer's.
sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura.

I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN, I AM A FREEMAN, THE DEMOCRATS WORST NIGHTMARE
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FrancSevin For This Useful Post:
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:08 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 18,363
Thanks: 11,745
Thanked 12,612 Times in 7,402 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Anyone that's filled out their own tax forms can read a tax form. The tax forms provide a lot of information and it's in plain sight where it can be read by anyone.

For example Berne Sanders has earned quite a bit of money in the last two years and that shows up on his tax forms that record the income from book sales. It doesn't take an expert to read that information.

Total income for the year is recorded and that provides insight to a person's net worth.

When Mitt Romney published his 2011 tax returns it was easy for me to see that Romney paid a much lower percentage of income in federal taxes on $22 million in income than I paid in 2011 on about $100,000 in income. Romney paid about 14% while I paid closer to 28% because I paid FICA taxes in addition to income taxes while Mitt Romney only paid the capital gains taxes on unearned income. It was easy to see how wrong it was for someone with $22 million in income paying half the effective tax rate compared to someone working 40-60 hours a week with only $100,000 in income.

Tax experts can certainly determine more from a person's tax returns and it doesn't matter who the tax expert is because other tax experts will be checking their conclusions.

I trust me to be able to judge what significance might be found on the tax return. I'll listen to what others have to say but ultimately I'm the judge. Got any problems with that? You can also be a judge to make your own determinations and your determination will be based upon how good the experts are that you're listening to.
Romney paid nearly $3 million in Federal income taxes while you paid $28,000, about 1% of what Romney paid. Yet Romney is under taxed.

Riddle me this, who fed more hungry children school lunches, Romney or you?

Trump's tax returns are in the neighborhood of 55,000 pages each. They have been reviewed by experts at the IRS. The only so-called experts to review them if they are released to Congress are partisan Democrats like pencil neck and fat Jerry who will leak selected bits to their media pals.
__________________
What is a 30 something year old single man with a rock in one hand and a Honduran flag in the other?

An asylum seeker.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AZRWinger For This Useful Post:
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2019, 03:53 PM
GetAClue's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Ohio
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,855
Thanks: 8,357
Thanked 5,884 Times in 3,375 Posts
Default Re: Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

I'm more interested to see Obama's college transcripts that were sealed away at his request. I wonder that HE was hiding?
__________________
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine

A lie doesn't become truth, a wrong doesn't become right, and Evil doesn't become good, just because it is accepted by the majority. - Booker T Washington
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GetAClue For This Useful Post:
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:54 PM
cnredd's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Gender: Male
Posts: 55,602
Thanks: 2,277
Thanked 36,148 Times in 20,622 Posts
Default Re: Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
I'm more interested to see Obama's college transcripts that were sealed away at his request. I wonder that HE was hiding?
The LA Times has a recording of then-candidate Barack Obama praising a Palestinian terrorist, but they never made it public...

The L.A. Times Suppresses Obama’s Khalidi Bash Tape

Quote:
Why is the Los Angeles Times sitting on a videotape of the 2003 farewell bash in Chicago at which Barack Obama lavished praise on the guest of honor, Rashid Khalidi — former mouthpiece for master terrorist Yasser Arafat?

At the time Khalidi, a PLO adviser turned University of Chicago professor, was headed east to Columbia. There he would take over the University’s Middle East-studies program (which he has since maintained as a bubbling cauldron of anti-Semitism) and assume the professorship endowed in honor of Edward Sayyid, another notorious terror apologist.

The party featured encomiums by many of Khalidi’s allies, colleagues, and friends, including Barack Obama, then an Illinois state senator, and Bill Ayers, the terrorist turned education professor. It was sponsored by the Arab American Action Network (AAAN), which had been founded by Khalidi and his wife, Mona, formerly a top English translator for Arafat’s press agency.

Is there just a teeny-weenie chance that this was an evening of Israel-bashing Obama would find very difficult to explain? Could it be that the Times, a pillar of the Obamedia, is covering for its guy?

Back in April, the Times published a gentle story about the fete. Reporter Peter Wallsten avoided, for example, any mention of the inconvenient fact that the revelers included Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, Ayers’s wife and fellow Weatherman terrorist. These self-professed revolutionary Leftists are friendly with both Obama and Khalidi — indeed, researcher Stanley Kurtz has noted that Ayers and Khalidi were “best friends.” (And — small world! — it turns out that the Obamas are extremely close to the Khalidis, who have reportedly babysat the Obama children.)

Nor did the Times report the party was thrown by AAAN. Wallsten does tell us that the AAAN received grants from the Leftist Woods Fund when Obama was on its board — but, besides understating the amount (it was $75,000, not $40,000), the Times mentions neither that Ayers was also on the Woods board at the time nor that AAAN is rabidly anti-Israel. (Though the organization regards Israel as illegitimate and has sought to justify Palestinian terrorism, Wallsten describes the AAAN as “a social service group.”)

Perhaps even more inconveniently, the Times also let slip that it had obtained a videotape of the party.

...So why is the Times sitting on the videotape of the Khalidi festivities? Given Obama’s (preposterous) claims that he didn’t know Ayers that well and was unfamiliar with Ayers’s views, why didn’t the Times report that Ayers and Dohrn were at the bash? Was it not worth mentioning the remarkable coincidence that both Obama and Ayers — the “education reform” allies who barely know each other … except to the extent they together doled out tens of millions of dollars to Leftist agitators, attacked the criminal justice system, and raved about each others books — just happen to be intimate friends of the same anti-American Israel-basher?
__________________
"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2019, 02:26 PM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,429
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,314 Times in 1,840 Posts
Default Re: Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
So, you've never encountered a tax return where the sources of income are multiple corporate entities and investments, have you. I deal with this stuff and it's not a quick look see, easier ones can be 80+ pages, you start adding in more entities, and it grows exponentially.

Short version, no one's tax returns are REQUIRED to be made public. I'll say again, as I have before ,of there was something to be found, the IRS would have found it long before this pathetic harassment started.
If it's 80 pages long then either I can wade through it to gather what information I can or I can use it as a means for verifying what experts tell me is information that the tax return provides.

I've waded through lots of government documents that are far greater than 80 pages to short out what was actually being covered and it wasn't that big of a deal. It can be work but it's often worth it.

No one is being required to involuntarily release their tax returns to the public. Only if a person seeks public office, that is a privilege and not a right, do they have to voluntarily provide their tax returns and subject them to public scrutiny - it's a condition to be on the ballot. They can even avoid that by running a write-in campaign so that they don't have to be on the ballot.

According to Donald Trump his tax returns are audited every year and the IRS would only audit his tax returns every year if they consistently found unlawful deductions or violations of the tax codes on his tax returns year after year after year. That doesn't imply the IRS catches all of the unlawful deductions because we know they don't. Recent testimony provides a reason to re-examine past tax filings to look for the violations that would exist and not be caught by a typical IRS examination. For example were Trump's payments to Michael Cohen for the Stormy Daniels payoff reported as a tax deductible attorney expense? That would be a fraudulent deduction on Trump's tax form.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2019, 02:38 PM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,429
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,314 Times in 1,840 Posts
Default Re: Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
The LA Times has a recording of then-candidate Barack Obama praising a Palestinian terrorist, but they never made it public...

The L.A. Times Suppresses Obama’s Khalidi Bash Tape
Founded in 1964 as an organization to fight for the liberation of Palestine from foreign Jews that had invaded and taken control by force of most of Palestine the PLO was condemned as a terrorist organization by Israel and the United States because of it's attacks on civilians.

That designation as a terrorist organization, only alleged by Israel and the United States, ended with the Madrid Conference in 1991. In 1993, the PLO recognized Israel's right to exist in peace, accepted UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, and rejected "violence and terrorism". In response, Israel officially recognized the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people.

Stories claiming a link to terrorism from 2003, long after any nation considered the PLO to be a terrorist organization, are either based upon pure ignorance or a nefarious attempt to distort history.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ballot, candidates, disclose, shouldnt, taxes, the, who, wont

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0