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Elections Discuss Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audience at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by saltwn Your health care is rationed now. No insurance pays for everything and they even try to ...

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Old 04-17-2019, 06:46 AM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audienc

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Your health care is rationed now. No insurance pays for everything and they even try to tell the doctor what to prescribe and when to discharge in many instances.
He's right, it is about stability. We don't have the big employers, the good paying jobs or the unions anymore. Jobs are not guaranteed from youth to retirement as they once were. So this is a change we need and most all of us will appreciate one day or another.
No my health care isn't rationed now. i make a deal with an insurance company that they will pay for certain possible costs. Anything over that I write the check. Likewise what my employer covers for me as a condition of my selling him my labor.

The federal government has less net worth and less income minus outgo than I do. That alone should tell you something about the wisdom of letting the feds manage your money.
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:31 AM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audienc

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Several of the things you list could have been contested at first denial. My insurance company tried to limit what they would pay for in regards to my Type 1 Diabetes. Both were contested. One, the insurance company reversed their decision when proof of medical need was provided. The other, we reached a compromise. They would pay a portion equal to medications similar that were covered, and I could pick up the rest, or accept their decision to use their preferred med. Since MY research showed that one had proven better in the tests (what results available to me) I chose to pay the extra amount and get what I felt I should have.

See how that works? One makes choices.

As to the types of policies... once again, if you know what you need, and that's all you need, who are 'YOU' to say I can't have it. Who are YOU to judge what is or isn't right for me. And most of all, who are 'YOU' to demand that other people MUST pay for what I decide I want?

You feel other people should make medical decisions on behalf of the captured populace and you honestly believe that there will not be rationing, or restrictions or denials? Can you with a straight face actually say that and believe it?
Did ACA rules perhaps have something to do with your favorable outcome re your meds? Also you were evidently sound enough to research and fight for your rights. Not every sick person is. Insurance companies ration care now- a fact you seem to ignore. The difference is you pay more now than you would under a plan that is a one off tax without deductibles or copay and you will be able to see the doctor group and hospital group of your choosing.
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Old 04-17-2019, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audienc

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Did ACA rules perhaps have something to do with your favorable outcome re your meds? Also you were evidently sound enough to research and fight for your rights. Not every sick person is. Insurance companies ration care now- a fact you seem to ignore. The difference is you pay more now than you would under a plan that is a one off tax without deductibles or copay and you will be able to see the doctor group and hospital group of your choosing.
My issues were from 13 years ago to start, then re-fought 5 years ago when my insurance carrier changed. The results had nothing to do with the ACA.

You seem to be ignoring that insurance carriers have 'rationed care' for before the PPACA. I'm not sure why you think that has actually changed. The only thing the PPACA changed was pre-existing coverage, and the rest of us are bending over for that because we took our responsibilities seriously and made sure we had coverage and the ones who didn't bother now get a free ride on everybody else's money.

Please do tell, how much cheaper it is off a tax-driven premium versus one where someone actually can choose what their coverage is? Numbers and valid non-partisan links please.

On government healthcare, you'll die before you find such a thing... because it doesn't exist. Those who are working and making an income will ALWAYS pay more to subsidize those who are not contributing.
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Old 04-17-2019, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audienc

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Did ACA rules perhaps have something to do with your favorable outcome re your meds? Also you were evidently sound enough to research and fight for your rights. Not every sick person is. Insurance companies ration care now- a fact you seem to ignore. The difference is you pay more now than you would under a plan that is a one off tax without deductibles or copay and you will be able to see the doctor group and hospital group of your choosing.
Can you with a straight face actually say that and believe it?

Insurance companies don't ration care. They sell a product that you are willing to buy at a price you can afford. With private insurance I buy what I need and pay for what I buy for my needs. With ACA I not only pay for what I need, but what you think you need but are unwilling to pay for.

BTW, that "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" was proven an outright lie.
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Old 04-17-2019, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audienc

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
My issues were from 13 years ago to start, then re-fought 5 years ago when my insurance carrier changed. The results had nothing to do with the ACA.

You seem to be ignoring that insurance carriers have 'rationed care' for before the PPACA. I'm not sure why you think that has actually changed. The only thing the PPACA changed was pre-existing coverage, and the rest of us are bending over for that because we took our responsibilities seriously and made sure we had coverage and the ones who didn't bother now get a free ride on everybody else's money.

Please do tell, how much cheaper it is off a tax-driven premium versus one where someone actually can choose what their coverage is? Numbers and valid non-partisan links please.

On government healthcare, you'll die before you find such a thing... because it doesn't exist. Those who are working and making an income will ALWAYS pay more to subsidize those who are not contributing.
ugh where to start with the corrections...
No I didn't mean to imply Obama care was the first time we didn't have rationed care. We didn't have it before insurers went cray-cray; I guess about the time they became huge conglomerates and I honestly don't know exactly when that happened. I guess about the time most everything else did. When CEO'S started managing businesses from central locations that should all be named 'dontknowsh*tfromshineOla'.
Anyhow, we had pretty decent insurance in the 60's and 70's as I recall. In the 80's I had ann HMO which I loved till some bastards sued HMO's 'because they couldn't stick with their old doctor'. cry babies.
The 90s started out OK for my family though it all depended on the employer.
then wham in the mid to late 90s the danged insurance went way, way up in premium, up in copay and up in deductibles. At the time I remember thinking this is the way politics works. The Clintons had made a stab at making drug companies play fair and insurance come under control and away from price gouging. The Clintons lost that battle and it looked (to me) like those CEO's across the board involved in health care pushed the envelope because 'a win is a win' and why not act like the victor?
I don't know if that's the reason but looked like to me.

Most decent people do try to take responsibility and buy health insurance. But it used to be considerably cheaper. To show you how cheap, when I was maybe 22 my employer talked us in to buying health insurance. This was a restaurant. In Florida we made around $1.20- $1.36 and hour (?) plus tips. The entire premiums were taken out of our little pay check and we had leftovers.
Back then I could agree it was a matter of taking responsibility for yourself and your family. Nowadays the average worker I see who is like I was unskilled but trying hard, cannot possibly afford insurance. I've had a lot of caregivers because the company just can't keep good help ///I have asked each and every one of them (making in range from 9-12 dol an hr) if they bought into the health insurance at work. Not one of them has though some have had children with health problems and put off procedures they themselves need. And because Idaho didn't expand medicaid they don't have that option. So now I guess you're wondering why they work at and and don't 'live a life of luxury' on welfare. For that is what you peg these ladies as. Free loaders, ner-do-wells, etc., That is the opinion you are expressing.

Please stop with the 'choose what[your] coverage is...' Insurance companies do not lower your cost because you don't want to get pregnant. They RAISE the cost for someone who does. And still infant mortality in the US is higher than in UK, SK, Denmark, Canada, Hong Kong, Germny, and a host of other countries with different health care systems. And you who believe in a bang for your buck, have a life expectancy that is lower than most of the civilized western countries.

Government health care in the example of the VA and Medicare gives excellent service. Ask someone who's on it.

You pay extra and lose community hospitals now due to uneccessary ER visits where the uninsured patient should have gone to his doctor much earlier needing far less emergency intervention.

Cost
Here's one Link to a pretty fair run down.
Here's the Medicare for All view.

Here is an article by Business Insider that reviews a study on the comparison.
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:41 AM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audienc

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
ugh where to start with the corrections...
No I didn't mean to imply Obama care was the first time we didn't have rationed care. We didn't have it before insurers went cray-cray; I guess about the time they became huge conglomerates and I honestly don't know exactly when that happened. I guess about the time most everything else did. When CEO'S started managing businesses from central locations that should all be named 'dontknowsh*tfromshineOla'.
Anyhow, we had pretty decent insurance in the 60's and 70's as I recall. In the 80's I had ann HMO which I loved till some bastards sued HMO's 'because they couldn't stick with their old doctor'. cry babies.
The 90s started out OK for my family though it all depended on the employer.
then wham in the mid to late 90s the danged insurance went way, way up in premium, up in copay and up in deductibles. At the time I remember thinking this is the way politics works. The Clintons had made a stab at making drug companies play fair and insurance come under control and away from price gouging. The Clintons lost that battle and it looked (to me) like those CEO's across the board involved in health care pushed the envelope because 'a win is a win' and why not act like the victor?
I don't know if that's the reason but looked like to me.

Most decent people do try to take responsibility and buy health insurance. But it used to be considerably cheaper. To show you how cheap, when I was maybe 22 my employer talked us in to buying health insurance. This was a restaurant. In Florida we made around $1.20- $1.36 and hour (?) plus tips. The entire premiums were taken out of our little pay check and we had leftovers.
Back then I could agree it was a matter of taking responsibility for yourself and your family. Nowadays the average worker I see who is like I was unskilled but trying hard, cannot possibly afford insurance. I've had a lot of caregivers because the company just can't keep good help ///I have asked each and every one of them (making in range from 9-12 dol an hr) if they bought into the health insurance at work. Not one of them has though some have had children with health problems and put off procedures they themselves need. And because Idaho didn't expand medicaid they don't have that option. So now I guess you're wondering why they work at and and don't 'live a life of luxury' on welfare. For that is what you peg these ladies as. Free loaders, ner-do-wells, etc., That is the opinion you are expressing.

Please stop with the 'choose what[your] coverage is...' Insurance companies do not lower your cost because you don't want to get pregnant. They RAISE the cost for someone who does. And still infant mortality in the US is higher than in UK, SK, Denmark, Canada, Hong Kong, Germny, and a host of other countries with different health care systems. And you who believe in a bang for your buck, have a life expectancy that is lower than most of the civilized western countries.

Government health care in the example of the VA and Medicare gives excellent service. Ask someone who's on it.

You pay extra and lose community hospitals now due to uneccessary ER visits where the uninsured patient should have gone to his doctor much earlier needing far less emergency intervention.

Cost
Here's one Link to a pretty fair run down.
Here's the Medicare for All view.

Here is an article by Business Insider that reviews a study on the comparison.
I'll bet you choose to go to the same hair stylist time after time because they understand your hair and get results you want. But, someone who applies these principles to selecting a doctor, a far more important decision, is selfish.

I too remember the era of HMO medicine where the doctor you saw was by the luck of the draw. Competent doctors soon left for private practice where work with the same patients over time. Those doctors that remained did so because they were dependent on the HMO to supply them with patients and they were willing to practice assembly line medicine where the volume of patients processed was the only measure of performance. Medicare for all, more accurately socialized medicine, will bring back this "golden era" of assembly line medicine under the watchful eye of unelected, unaccountable Federal bureaucrats like those at the VA who buried requests for service, collected bonuses for fraudulent performance and remained on the job thanks to civil service regulations. Paradise indeed.

You complain about unnecessary ER visits but new Medicaid recipients thanks to Obamacare inflating the income standards use the ER more than the population with insurance. Why shouldn't they? The ER has service on demand and they cannot be turned away for a hangnail. The ER is run on the exact same model of no cost to the patient at the point of service delivery Bernie proposes for Medicare for all. Oh and Bernie promises it will cut health care spending too.

From the article you linked

Quote:
the model also assumes that 30 million more people would get access to healthcare, and many people would get more robust services.

The savings would come from a variety of places, such as the government's ability to leverage its bargaining power into lower prescription-drug costs and mandating all healthcare providers take the lower Medicare payment rate.
Federal bureaucrats would fix prices at unsustainable levels and add more than 30 million new patients to demand but high quality health care would be readily available and overall health care spending would be reduced. Simple arithmetic exposes Medicare for all as a scam.

Democrats rigged the CBO analysis of Obamacare to produce so-called cost savings over 10 years. Obamacare gobbled up revenue for the first 4 years without paying out a dime in benefits. Even then it had to slash Medicare provider reimbursement rates by 24% to claim it would save money. It would have been disasterous to actually implement the cuts so Congress passed and the President signed a so-called doctor fix to restore funding. The same thing will happen with the illusion of healthcare spending reductions under Medicare for all. It's the same old scam where politicians promise something for nothing then leave to problem for the next generation to deal with.
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audienc

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Can you with a straight face actually say that and believe it?

Insurance companies don't ration care. They sell a product that you are willing to buy at a price you can afford. With private insurance I buy what I need and pay for what I buy for my needs. With ACA I not only pay for what I need, but what you think you need but are unwilling to pay for.

BTW, that "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" was proven an outright lie.
you must choose a doctor from your insurance company's list of covered doctors. the insurance company has what's called a formulary. it is a list of covered drugs. your doctor may want to but won't prescribe his first best choice of medication if it is not listed. Soon we will even go back to them not covering some people like they did before. if we keep voting republican I feel sorry for you if you ever are weakened.
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audienc

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I'll bet you choose to go to the same hair stylist time after time because they understand your hair and get results you want. But, someone who applies these principles to selecting a doctor, a far more important decision, is selfish.

I too remember the era of HMO medicine where the doctor you saw was by the luck of the draw. Competent doctors soon left for private practice where work with the same patients over time. Those doctors that remained did so because they were dependent on the HMO to supply them with patients and they were willing to practice assembly line medicine where the volume of patients processed was the only measure of performance. Medicare for all, more accurately socialized medicine, will bring back this "golden era" of assembly line medicine under the watchful eye of unelected, unaccountable Federal bureaucrats like those at the VA who buried requests for service, collected bonuses for fraudulent performance and remained on the job thanks to civil service regulations. Paradise indeed.

You complain about unnecessary ER visits but new Medicaid recipients thanks to Obamacare inflating the income standards use the ER more than the population with insurance. Why shouldn't they? The ER has service on demand and they cannot be turned away for a hangnail. The ER is run on the exact same model of no cost to the patient at the point of service delivery Bernie proposes for Medicare for all. Oh and Bernie promises it will cut health care spending too.

From the article you linked



Federal bureaucrats would fix prices at unsustainable levels and add more than 30 million new patients to demand but high quality health care would be readily available and overall health care spending would be reduced. Simple arithmetic exposes Medicare for all as a scam.

Democrats rigged the CBO analysis of Obamacare to produce so-called cost savings over 10 years. Obamacare gobbled up revenue for the first 4 years without paying out a dime in benefits. Even then it had to slash Medicare provider reimbursement rates by 24% to claim it would save money. It would have been disasterous to actually implement the cuts so Congress passed and the President signed a so-called doctor fix to restore funding. The same thing will happen with the illusion of healthcare spending reductions under Medicare for all. It's the same old scam where politicians promise something for nothing then leave to problem for the next generation to deal with.
medicare for all is not socialized medicine. socialized medicine is when the government delivers the health care. medicare for all is when the government pays for your health care.
you'll pay a tax but no deductible, no premium, no copay.
I don't go to a hairdresser; my hair which was thick as three heads of hair is still falling out from a side effect of a rheumatoid medicine that stays in the system for two years. Thank God on the one hand my hair was so thick. on the other hand I don't know when this will stop.
you have your own opinion. fine. I have mine that, yes, in the greatest country on earth no one should choose between leaving the lights on, eating, or getting a necessary operation.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audienc

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
you must choose a doctor from your insurance company's list of covered doctors. the insurance company has what's called a formulary. it is a list of covered drugs. your doctor may want to but won't prescribe his first best choice of medication if it is not listed. Soon we will even go back to them not covering some people like they did before. if we keep voting republican I feel sorry for you if you ever are weakened.
Nope. If a given private company tries to sell me a policy not to my liking, be it choice of doctors or choice of drugs, I can pick up my application and go elsewhere or nowhere. Not so when there is only one provider. With ACA you cannot even opt out. It's true that certain groups of people are difficult or impossible to insure. But I don't skydive or race cars. Being an 81 YO male with two vasectomies, I won't be needing anything associated with childbirth issues.

You're just making my point You're also presuming I have only one option. There are thousands of insurance companies.

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Old 04-19-2019, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders gets support for 'Medicare for All' proposal from Fox News audienc

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
medicare for all is not socialized medicine. socialized medicine is when the government delivers the health care. medicare for all is when the government pays for your health care.
you'll pay a tax but no deductible, no premium, no copay.
I don't go to a hairdresser; my hair which was thick as three heads of hair is still falling out from a side effect of a rheumatoid medicine that stays in the system for two years. Thank God on the one hand my hair was so thick. on the other hand I don't know when this will stop.
you have your own opinion. fine. I have mine that, yes, in the greatest country on earth no one should choose between leaving the lights on, eating, or getting a necessary operation.
Medicare for all is not even close to Medicare either. I paid thousands per year for decades with no prospect of getting a dime back until I was 65. Not so with the for all group. They'll get coverage the day they sign up with or without making a payment. That may not be socialized healthcare, but it's socialized insurance.
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