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Elections Discuss New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud at the Political Forums; According to this study, voter ID laws do not deter or suppress voter turnout. It would imply that simply asking ...

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Old 02-13-2019, 06:27 AM
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Default New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud

According to this study, voter ID laws do not deter or suppress voter turnout. It would imply that simply asking someone for their ID is not a racist act, but just a way to verify that the person looking to vote is the person they say they are.

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Yet another study has found that voter ID laws do not suppress voter turnout, but the study also asserted such laws have no clear effect on stopping voter fraud.

The study was compiled by two professors, Vincent Pons of Harvard University Business School and Enrico Cantoni of the economics department at the University of Bologna in Italy. It was issued by the National Bureau of Economic Research, based in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

“For all the heated debates around strict voter ID laws, our analysis of their effects obtains mostly null results,” the study says, adding:

First, the fears that strict ID requirements would disenfranchise disadvantaged populations have not materialized. Second, contrary to the argument used by the Supreme Court in the 2008 case Crawford v. Marion County to uphold the constitutionality of one of the early strict ID laws, we find no significant impact on fraud or public confidence in election integrity. This result weakens the case for adopting such laws in the first place.

In 2008, the Supreme Court upheld Indiana’s voter ID law in a 6-3 ruling in the case of Crawford v. Marion County Election Board.

Typically, Republican-controlled state legislatures have passed voter ID laws as a measure to prevent voter fraud, while Democratic lawmakers have alleged that such laws are voter suppression.

Past studies have drawn the same conclusion that voter ID laws do not deter voter turnout, but the new study is “totally wrong” to conclude ID laws don’t prevent voter fraud, said Hans von Spakovsky, manager of the Election Law Reform Initiative at The Heritage Foundation.

“How would you show it deters fraud if that’s something that didn’t happen because of voter ID laws?” von Spakovsky told The Daily Signal. “You have to look at convictions in absentee ballot fraud cases. In just four states, the voter ID laws apply the same to both in-person and absentee voting. So, it’s difficult to say.”

Currently, 17 states have photo ID laws at the polls, and 18 states have voter ID laws that do not require a photo, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

Various studies in recent years done by professors at the University of Missouri, the University of Delaware, the University of Nebraska surveying elections from 2000 through 2016 found similar results that voter ID laws do not suppress voter turnout.

Of those states, the National Conference of State Legislatures classifies 10 states as “strict,” meaning if a voter is without acceptable voter ID under that state’s law, most vote on a provisional ballot. Three of those “strict” states do not require photo ID.

The National Bureau of Economic Research study’s researchers used data from Catalist, a company that provides data for progressive-leaning groups that target voter turnout.

It looks at elections from 2008 through 2016 with a sampling across 30 states.

The study stated: “Measuring voter fraud represents a challenge, as federal and state agencies vary in the extent they collect and share information on it.”

The research cited The Heritage Foundation voter fraud database that includes 1,177 proven cases of voter fraud. Of those, 1,019 cases ended in criminal conviction.

The study also used data from News21, an investigative project funded by the Carnegie Corp. and the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation. Through research of government documents, the project found 2,068 cases of suspected voter fraud reported from 2000 through 2012.

The study does not claim to be the last word on the matter.

“Because states adopted strict ID laws only two to 12 years ago, our results should be interpreted with caution: we find negative participation effects neither in the first election after the adoption of the laws nor in following ones, but cannot rule out that such effects will arise in the future,” the study says.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/02/...nout-or-fraud/
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:31 AM
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Default Re: New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud

Here's my surprised face...Ö

If people feel the requirement to provide ID is 'suppression' then instead of claiming it's racist, how about helping people go and get an ID. Novel idea I know, but it doesn't work with 'everybody must be a victim' approach.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud

LOL . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
According to this study, voter ID laws do not deter or suppress voter turnout. It would imply that simply asking someone for their ID is not a racist act, but just a way to verify that the person looking to vote is the person they say they are.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/02/...nout-or-fraud/
A very interesting report and there's only one dispute related to it's results and that's coming from the ultra right-wing Heritage Foundation.

Quote:
Past studies have drawn the same conclusion that voter ID laws do not deter voter turnout, but the new study is “totally wrong” to conclude ID laws don’t prevent voter fraud, said Hans von Spakovsky, manager of the Election Law Reform Initiative at The Heritage Foundation.

“How would you show it deters fraud if that’s something that didn’t happen because of voter ID laws?” von Spakovsky told The Daily Signal. “You have to look at convictions in absentee ballot fraud cases. In just four states, the voter ID laws apply the same to both in-person and absentee voting. So, it’s difficult to say.”
It is true that there's been many cases of voter impersonation on absentee ballots while there's no evidence of voter impersonation at the polls (a study showing only 32 documented cases of voter impersonation at the polls in over a billion votes cast equals "no evidence"). It's obvious that people are extremely honest when they go to the polls to vote and not very honest when they vote by mail. We need to separate the two different methods of voting according to the objection by the Heritage Foundation.

The report also states that the voter turnout isn't affected but we also know that the voter ID laws can prevent people from becoming registered voters and voting in future elections. Obtaining the ID necessary includes the requirement that the person without approved ID, that they don't require for any other purpose in life, has to go through the process of obtaining the ID and that often comes at a cost (e.g. purchasing a copy of their birth certificate) that a low income person cannot afford.

Our laws should address problems and not create problems when it comes to voting. The problem of requiring a valid ID to vote by person at the polls does not exist while the requirement for an American citizen that hasn't previously voted, and that doesn't have the "proper" ID to vote, to spend both time and money just so they can vote is a serious problem.

The voter ID laws that require limited forms of ID (that millions of Americans have no other need for) to vote at the polls are not addressing a problem and they're imposing a costly restriction on the ability of previously non-voting American citizens to register and vote in our elections.

These are nefarious laws to prevent the ability of predominately low income minorities that have been non-voters in the past from registering and voting in the future. That isn't suppression of the current voters but it is suppression of potential future voters.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Here's my surprised face...…

If people feel the requirement to provide ID is 'suppression' then instead of claiming it's racist, how about helping people go and get an ID. Novel idea I know, but it doesn't work with 'everybody must be a victim' approach.
It can easily cost up to $100 to obtain a copy of a birth certificate so that the person can obtain a state ID card and vote. Low income individuals have no other need for that state issued ID. They have a very limited income and you're asking them to fork over $100 that has to come from their budget to cover absolute necessities, like food that they do need, just so they can vote when the problem of voter impersonation doesn't exist at the polls.

There's an old saying about "Put your money where your mouth is" that's very appropriate to the suggestion proposed in addressing the non-existent problem of voter impersonation at the polls.

You're welcome to fork over that $100 to help a low income person obtain a copy of their birth certificate so they can obtain a state issued ID card but I don't see any Republicans actually offering to do that.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
It can easily cost up to $100 to obtain a copy of a birth certificate so that the person can obtain a state ID card and vote. Low income individuals have no other need for that state issued ID. They have a very limited income and you're asking them to fork over $100 that has to come from their budget to cover absolute necessities, like food that they do need, just so they can vote when the problem of voter impersonation doesn't exist at the polls.

There's an old saying about "Put your money where your mouth is" that's very appropriate to the suggestion proposed in addressing the non-existent problem of voter impersonation at the polls.

You're welcome to fork over that $100 to help a low income person obtain a copy of their birth certificate so they can obtain a state issued ID card but I don't see any Republicans actually offering to do that.
I have no idea where you get $100 from. Most states run from $10 to about $25, and in some instances, free. Most states also have low/no cost transportation and can be scheduled for a run to most government offices.

In addition, IDs are required to receive assistance, have utilities in your name, cash checks, ad quite often, the use of a debit or credit card will also require collaborating identification.

So, your argument doesn't hold water. If someone can find a way to actually go vote, they can also find a way to get an ID. Matter of fact, I have assisted in people getting to the DMV and County offices for various needs. It's called volunteer work.
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud

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I have no idea where you get $100 from. Most states run from $10 to about $25, and in some instances, free. Most states also have low/no cost transportation and can be scheduled for a run to most government offices.

In addition, IDs are required to receive assistance, have utilities in your name, cash checks, ad quite often, the use of a debit or credit card will also require collaborating identification.

So, your argument doesn't hold water. If someone can find a way to actually go vote, they can also find a way to get an ID. Matter of fact, I have assisted in people getting to the DMV and County offices for various needs. It's called volunteer work.
just for the sake of argument. if you are a married disabled woman with out of date dr license. you need $$$ bc for proof but to get a bc you will need a $$$ photo id. if you make it out of that circle jerk it will only allow you an id in your maiden name which is not legal if you've been using your married name so you also have to obtain a copy of your$$$ marriage license. next you have to have the money to pay for your $$$ new id.

note: you cannot get a bc with a dr lic out of date for more than 3 years so you will have to be persistent and pray.
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Old 02-13-2019, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud

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just for the sake of argument. if you are a married disabled woman with out of date dr license. you need $$$ bc for proof but to get a bc you will need a $$$ photo id. if you make it out of that circle jerk it will only allow you an id in your maiden name which is not legal if you've been using your married name so you also have to obtain a copy of your$$$ marriage license. next you have to have the money to pay for your $$$ new id.

note: you cannot get a bc with a dr lic out of date for more than 3 years so you will have to be persistent and pray.
Try getting a valid copy of your BC when you weren't born in a hospital. By a strange bit of luck, I stumbled across my original BC in an old file, so I didn't have to call county/city/overseeing hospital to track it down. But, it could be done over the phone, with ACH debit to bank account or payment by CC if necessary, once a whole lot of questions were answered.

If your DL is expired, but your address and name haven't changed, you should be able to renew it, and the picture comes gratis when you pay for the DL.

Picture for passports are $10 at the County Clerks office here.

If someone is determined to exercise their right to vote, they will find a way to do it.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Try getting a valid copy of your BC when you weren't born in a hospital. By a strange bit of luck, I stumbled across my original BC in an old file, so I didn't have to call county/city/overseeing hospital to track it down. But, it could be done over the phone, with ACH debit to bank account or payment by CC if necessary, once a whole lot of questions were answered.

If your DL is expired, but your address and name haven't changed, you should be able to renew it, and the picture comes gratis when you pay for the DL.

Picture for passports are $10 at the County Clerks office here.

If someone is determined to exercise their right to vote, they will find a way to do it.



I have explained my several year drought w/o a photo id, the road blocks and how I obtained one.
EACH state is different on obtaining BC and photo id's.
Basically I have one because they just got tired of me loitering in the dr lic place in Ark and Fla had had so many complaints re bc's they had a special agent (I was directed to by the state's attny general office) that finally helped me. But yeah The photo id I got because I waited around till almost closing and all but cried and was very polite but persistent.
It should not be that hard. What if you have a house fire or accident and you are recovering in hospital and your id's expire while that is ongoing? So many ways you can misplace or lose your id.

But the pile on of regulations or laws that block people from easily voting is tragic. Like the numerous places that Republican legislatures have reduced voting locations.
Clearly these things are meant to prevent voting to poor people and handicapped /seniors. Who generally have been known to vote Democrat.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: New Study: Voter ID Laws Donít Deter Turnout or Fraud

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post



I have explained my several year drought w/o a photo id, the road blocks and how I obtained one.
EACH state is different on obtaining BC and photo id's.
Basically I have one because they just got tired of me loitering in the dr lic place in Ark and Fla had had so many complaints re bc's they had a special agent (I was directed to by the state's attny general office) that finally helped me. But yeah The photo id I got because I waited around till almost closing and all but cried and was very polite but persistent.
It should not be that hard. What if you have a house fire or accident and you are recovering in hospital and your id's expire while that is ongoing? So many ways you can misplace or lose your id.

But the pile on of regulations or laws that block people from easily voting is tragic. Like the numerous places that Republican legislatures have reduced voting locations.
Clearly these things are meant to prevent voting to poor people and handicapped /seniors. Who generally have been known to vote Democrat.
Verifying who you are to vote is not a deterrent to voting. If most of those people needed an ID to pick up their gov't issued check, they wouldn't have any trouble doing so. You can make all of the straw man arguments you want, but he fact of the matter is, getting a state issued ID is not difficult. If they can make it to the voting booth, they can make it to the DMV or some other gov't agency to get a photo ID.
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