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Elections Discuss "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard at the Political Forums; sad to say I can't find ANY mainstream news coverage of this, LEFT or RIGHT... Rep. Tulsi Gabbard introduces bill ...

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Old 03-13-2018, 06:57 PM
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Default "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard

sad to say I can't find ANY mainstream news coverage of this, LEFT or RIGHT...

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard introduces bill to require paper ballots or paper backup in all elections
Daily Kos

"Washington, DC—Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (HI-02) today introduced legislation to protect the country’s election infrastructure from cyber-hackers by requiring the use of voter-verified paper ballots or a paper ballot backup in federal elections. It authorizes emergency funding to empower every state to use voter-verified paper ballots that produce an auditable paper trail, beginning with the 2018 elections. It also addresses the need to ensure safe and secure software is utilized in voting machines on Election Day.

The Securing America’s Elections Act expands on progress made in Hawai‘i and 14 other states that currently produce voter-verified paper ballots to provide the American people with a secure, reliable, and independent record of their votes.

According to the Department of Homeland Security, 21 U.S. states’ electoral systems faced attempted hacking in the 2016 election. Shortly after, at the world’s longest-running and largest hacking conference, DEFCON revealed startling cyber vulnerabilities in US election infrastructure: hackers easily breached every piece of election equipment, some in mere minutes. Participants with limited prior hacking knowledge and few tools and resources were able to undermine and manipulate the privacy, integrity, and accessibility of election equipment – most of which is still widely used in state and local elections today. Following these revelations from DEFCON, states like Virginia took action and switched to a voter-verified paper ballot system in their 2017 election to ensure voter integrity and confidence in their elections infrastructure. They produced the highest voter turnout in two decades. However, serious vulnerabilities remain in most states.

I know Tulsi Gabbard isn’t the most popular figure on here (Daily Kos), but kudos to her for doing this. More Dems should be talking about using paper ballots! We keep hearing about Russian hacking but this painfully obvious solution is getting very little attention. Virginia switched to paper ballots in last year’s governor’s election and it worked great. The rest of the country needs to follow suit. It’s common sense!"
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard

Paper ballot.
Hanging chad.
Russians didn't hack voting machines.
But I'm okay with paper ballots.
I also want voter ID to get a paper ballot.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard

A paper ballot system is not immune to tampering either. In the recount of the ballots for the Minnesota Senate race between Coleman and Franken numerous additional ballots were "discovered" almost all for Franken. Recounting paper ballots doesn't necessarily settle an election dispute, there are still people who claim Bush stole Florida in the 2000 despite several independent recounts.

The drive to regress to paper ballots opens the door to local tampering by politicians.
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard

While we are at it, let's pass a law requiring everyone have oil lamps, and keep a horse.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard

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Originally Posted by loboloco View Post
While we are at it, let's pass a law requiring everyone have oil lamps, and keep a horse.


So we should just trust technology. becasue new is always better? Maybe we should stop using Wool and Cotton and only use synthetic cloth. And get rid of all simple hammers, Knives and wrenches. only electric will do in the 21andHalf century. right?

Your comment tries to make it a question of doing it the NEWEST way verses the OLD way.
When your comment should be addressing the question, what's THE BEST and the safest way.
The Answer at this stage of the game is paper ballots.
Printed and Cast in the real world, Kept in the real world.
Not digitally.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
A paper ballot system is not immune to tampering either. In the recount of the ballots for the Minnesota Senate race between Coleman and Franken numerous additional ballots were "discovered" almost all for Franken. Recounting paper ballots doesn't necessarily settle an election dispute, there are still people who claim Bush stole Florida in the 2000 despite several independent recounts.

The drive to regress to paper ballots opens the door to local tampering by politicians.
you're right, There is no perfect solution.
But paper is better than digital.

And Bush did steal the Florida Vote. not via the recount but through His Brother and FL election staff Purging the voter rolls of 10s of thousands of eligible voters before the election... mostly Ds.

just becasue you never heard of it or don't believe it don't mean it ain't true.
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/ele...tml#post929454
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Last edited by mr wonder; 03-14-2018 at 07:19 PM..
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Old 03-15-2018, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
you're right, There is no perfect solution.
But paper is better than digital.

And Bush did steal the Florida Vote. not via the recount but through His Brother and FL election staff Purging the voter rolls of 10s of thousands of eligible voters before the election... mostly Ds.

just becasue you never heard of it or don't believe it don't mean it ain't true.
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/ele...tml#post929454
Paper ballots are better? Typically paper ballots are collected at polling places then transported to the counting machines at a central location. As shown by the examples in the previous post, ballots can be waylaid, or a new group of ballots can be "discovered" later. Hand recounts are subject to human error as well as damage to ballots. Don't forget the so-called pregnant Chad.

We trust our money to completely digital systems as well as our mail including transactions. We shouldn't hold back election systems due to superstition.

The issue is the use paper versus electronic ballots. The allegation that cleaning up voter rolls was stealing the election is irrelevant to this discussion.
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Paper ballots are better? Typically paper ballots are collected at polling places then transported to the counting machines at a central location. As shown by the examples in the previous post, ballots can be waylaid, or a new group of ballots can be "discovered" later. Hand recounts are subject to human error as well as damage to ballots. Don't forget the so-called pregnant Chad.

We trust our money to completely digital systems as well as our mail including transactions. We shouldn't hold back election systems due to superstition.
We trust our money to a system that has 100 times the number of checks and protections than our voting machine. an interview with a banking security expert called voting machines a joke. that ATMs FAR more secure in a crazy way.. Plus our money is linked to everyone by name and numbers, camera, fingerprints, 1 or 2 forms of ID cards, verification by the bank, you, and third parties, and finally verification of ALL transactions for the month are still often sent to people's home's on PAPER. While voting is anonymous ,so many of the fail safes available for monetary transactions are just not there.

but even in general paper is still better

Here the thing about digital voting vs paper using in your example, the paper ballots have to be "waylaid" PHYSICALLY.
Someone on the ground in the local area has to get it done in the light of day. A few partisans from both sided following the ballots covers that.
Extra ballots? Again a few partisans from both sides checking the seals labels and number of boxes = security DONE.
with digital voting people can be ANYwhere in the world flipping, adding removing, or simply destroying any and all votes. And if they are good they won't leave a trail. Beside anywhere in the world some voting machine have been shown to be flipped locally by the election boards after the fact. Again without ANY TRACE of what was done. the PROGRAMMER had to expose it. Maybe in the 2050 or 2075 they'll make a truly SECURE and trust worthy digital voting system but right now

Paper is not perfect but it is BETTER.
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
So we should just trust technology. becasue new is always better? Maybe we should stop using Wool and Cotton and only use synthetic cloth. And get rid of all simple hammers, Knives and wrenches. only electric will do in the 21andHalf century. right?

Your comment tries to make it a question of doing it the NEWEST way verses the OLD way.
When your comment should be addressing the question, what's THE BEST and the safest way.
The Answer at this stage of the game is paper ballots.
Printed and Cast in the real world, Kept in the real world.
Not digitally.
New isn't always better. However, old is usually outdated and worse than the new. Pay no attention to the massive amounts of storage space and manhours required to store and preserve these paper ballots. A well designed electronic voting system is much superior to paper. Only people who know nothing of systems design or just want to screw over the system think otherwise.
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: "Paper Ballot" Bill Introduced By Tulsi Gabbard

Quote:
Originally Posted by loboloco View Post
New isn't always better. However, old is usually outdated and worse than the new. Pay no attention to the massive amounts of storage space and manhours required to store and preserve these paper ballots. A well designed electronic voting system is much superior to paper. Only people who know nothing of systems design or just want to screw over the system think otherwise.
Voting is LOCAL. a few thousand or hundred thousand paper ballots per precinct is not a hardship for our democracy, sheesh. Storage units and empty gov't office space ABOUND in most cities, towns, counties.

bottom line the tech just Ain't ready for voting. it's just NOT as secure as physical ballots. that's the bottom line. reread my last post. look, Our love of tech and it's efficiency doesn't change the facts. BTW The people that REALLY want digital voting are the ones that sell the tech and those that can game it. Sometimes they are one in the same.

Slogans and feelings about how tech is just better and paper seems old fashion and clunkly are just that slogans and emotions.
the reality is digital voting tech is crap. Until it can be PROVEN secure paper is the best option.

look I'm no Luddite, I writing this on a com-pu-ter man. i was using a computer to make a living before most people did. And helped trained others in my field to do so. But it doens't mean that EVERYTHING is done best by computers... fact is it ain't.

Just like back in the 1970 and early 1980s computer graphics were generally crap and often just black and white. so i made no sense for movies to use them in special effect works. the tech wasn't ready. the same with voice recognition in the 1990's the tech wasn't ready.
just becasue we have digital voting NOW doesn't mean it's GOOD. the fact is it's piss poor.
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