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Elections Discuss State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’ at the Political Forums; Thousands of voters whose citizenship has been questioned should receive letters from the state this week telling them they may ...

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Old 11-01-2008, 12:32 AM
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Post State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’

Thousands of voters whose citizenship has been questioned should receive letters from the state this week telling them they may have to vote with a “challenged” paper ballot on Election Day.

On Wednesday, Secretary of State Karen Handel’s office sent letters to 4,770 registered voters believed to be noncitizens, Handel said in an interview Wednesday.

Handel’s office decided to send out the letters “as expeditiously as possible” to comply with a judge’s order, said Matt Carrothers, a spokesman for Handel.

Previously, it was up to each county to look up people whose citizenship was considered questionable and send them a letter. Many counties stopped this process after the U.S. Department of Justice questioned it this month, saying it had not been cleared in advance.

The secretary of state’s office verifies citizenship by checking voter registration application information against records held by the Georgia Department of Driver Services.

A panel of federal judges this week ordered Handel’s office to come up with a way of alerting those whose status has been questioned and allowing them to vote in some way on Election Day.

Those whose citizenship is in question can go to a county elections office before Election Day and produce documents proving their citizenship and resolve the issue, Carrothers said.

The letter from Handel’s office tells the voters that if they appear at their polling place with the issue still unresolved, they will be given a “challenge” ballot —- a paper version of the ballot that appears on electronic voting machines. The ballot will not be included in the precinct’s vote totals, Handel said.

Counties that have election boards will conduct hearings on these and other challenged ballots at 10 a.m. the Friday after the election. They will determine whether the person is a citizen.

In counties where probate judges preside over election disputes, hearings also will take place soon, Handel said.

Counties can’t certify their election results until the challenges are resolved. If the voters can prove citizenship, Handel said, their ballots will be counted.

Any voter can challenge another’s qualifications to cast a ballot by notifying a precinct poll manager, Handel said. That voter then would be given a challenge ballot and would have to go before the election board.

If large numbers of challenges are made on Election Day, Handel said, her office will investigate whether they are part of an orchestrated effort to influence the election’s outcome.

But, she said, “I’m not anticipating any kind of huge issue there.”
State to notify 4,770 their votes are 'challenged' | ajc.com

1) I am amazed that they claim "as expeditiously as possible", then the letters get mailed out ON THE WEDNESDAY BEFORE the election.
Give 1-2 days, they get the mail on Thursday or FRIDAY, and at THAT time they are made aware that next week Tuesday they have their vote "challenged".


2) ANY voter can "challenge" another voter?
WHAT STIPULATIONS are made to verify that the "challenger" has any grounds for the challenge???
And just based on that challenge, the status of the vote is changed, making the voter have to change his plans the day after to try to justify his voting right?
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Old 11-01-2008, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
2) ANY voter can "challenge" another voter?
WHAT STIPULATIONS are made to verify that the "challenger" has any grounds for the challenge???
And just based on that challenge, the status of the vote is changed, making the voter have to change his plans the day after to try to justify his voting right?
That made me nervous, too...

I have a feeling it's more than just throwing it out there...If that were the case, you'd have "volunteers" from each side spending the day filling out some challenge forms challenging every single person believed to be voting for the other party...
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Old 11-01-2008, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’

2) ANY voter can "challenge" another voter?

That's absurd...
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Old 11-01-2008, 01:55 AM
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Default Re: State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’

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Originally Posted by Spencer Collins View Post
2) ANY voter can "challenge" another voter?

That's absurd...
I would like the names and addresses of the Moderation team here...

No reason in particular...
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Old 11-01-2008, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
[indent][color="Navy"]Thousands of voters whose citizenship has been questioned should receive letters from the state this week telling them they may have to vote with a “challenged” paper ballot on Election Day.
..........

Those whose citizenship is in question can go to a county elections office before Election Day and produce documents proving their citizenship and resolve the issue, Carrothers said.

The letter from Handel’s office tells the voters that if they appear at their polling place with the issue still unresolved, they will be given a “challenge” ballot —- a paper version of the ballot that appears on electronic voting machines. The ballot will not be included in the precinct’s vote totals, Handel said.

Counties that have election boards will conduct hearings on these and other challenged ballots at 10 a.m. the Friday after the election. They will determine whether the person is a citizen.

In counties where probate judges preside over election disputes, hearings also will take place soon, Handel said.

Counties can’t certify their election results until the challenges are resolved. If the voters can prove citizenship, Handel said, their ballots will be counted.


1) I am amazed that they claim "as expeditiously as possible", then the letters get mailed out ON THE WEDNESDAY BEFORE the election.
Give 1-2 days, they get the mail on Thursday or FRIDAY, and at THAT time they are made aware that next week Tuesday they have their vote "challenged".

No! There's no way people will have time to react before election day. And how many won't even go to the polls after such a notice???!!! And those who do will do so in the midst of potentially heaviest turnout in history - making it even more gruelling for everyone. And according to this, counties with election boards won't be decided until FRIDAY following the election and counties with probate judges deciding, hearings wil take place "soon". If counties with challenges can't be counted until all challenges are heard, that means ALL VOTES in the county will be withheld from the count - - challenged or not. Looks like Georgia's votes alone could delay the 2008 election results!

But the problem of "purging" isn't limited to Georgia. There are nine states with potential problems appearing to be in violation of federal law:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/us...3rbpM8LYDpd0yw

Quote:
States’ Actions to Block Voters Appear Illegal
Tens of thousands of eligible voters in at least six swing states have been removed from the rolls or have been blocked from registering in ways that appear to violate federal law, according to a review of state records and Social Security data by The New York Times.
.....

The screening or trimming of voter registration lists in the six states — Colorado, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Nevada and North Carolina — could also result in problems at the polls on Election Day: people who have been removed from the rolls are likely to show up only to be challenged by political party officials or election workers, resulting in confusion, long lines and heated tempers.

Some states allow such voters to cast provisional ballots. But they are often not counted because they require added verification. .....

Although much attention this year has been focused on the millions of new voters being added to the rolls by the candidacy of Senator Barack Obama, there has been far less notice given to the number of voters being dropped from those same rolls. .....

The six swing states seem to be in violation of federal law in two ways. Michigan and Colorado are removing voters from the rolls within 90 days of a federal election, which is not allowed except when voters die, notify the authorities that they have moved out of state, or have been declared unfit to vote.

Indiana, Nevada, North Carolina and Ohio seem to be improperly using Social Security data to verify registration applications for new voters.

In addition to the six swing states, three more states appear to be violating federal law. Alabama and Georgia seem to be improperly using Social Security information to screen registration applications from new voters. And Louisiana appears to have removed thousands of voters after the federal deadline for taking such action.
.....
Any chance the country will know election results November 5? And how many new voter registrations will be CANCELLED OUT due to such purges?
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Old 11-02-2008, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’

"""""But the problem of "purging" isn't limited to Georgia. There are nine states with potential problems appearing to be in violation of federal law:"""""""


So NOW you are beginning to realize just SOME of the problems with ACORN's "stuffing" of registration rolls.

But they didn't "commit voter fraud" they just "tied up" an already clogged system.
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Old 11-02-2008, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1 View Post
"""""But the problem of "purging" isn't limited to Georgia. There are nine states with potential problems appearing to be in violation of federal law:"""""""

There are states that could be ILLEGALLY purging voters, and you think that's in regards to "ACORN"????



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1
So NOW you are beginning to realize just SOME of the problems with ACORN's "stuffing" of registration rolls.
But they didn't "commit voter fraud" they just "tied up" an already clogged system.
This has nothing to do with "ACORN".

And there is no "beginning" regarding ACORN.
What ACORN EMPLOYEES have done, in order to get a paycheck they didn't deserve, is commit REGISTRATION fraud. No illegal "voting" has been shown.

So let's put our cards on the table.
I FULLY SUPPORT investigating ACORN and stopping any illegal voter registration.
Do YOU support investigating the actions described in this article???
Do YOU support stopping illegal voter purging?
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Old 11-02-2008, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1 View Post
"""""But the problem of "purging" isn't limited to Georgia. There are nine states with potential problems appearing to be in violation of federal law:"""""""


So NOW you are beginning to realize just SOME of the problems with ACORN's "stuffing" of registration rolls.

But they didn't "commit voter fraud" they just "tied up" an already clogged system.

As foundit66 noted, this has nothing to do with ACORN. In addition to new registrations, thousands of names which had already passed through a verification process and placed on the rolls have been removed.

And although it is likely to affect Democrats more this year due to increased registration, everyone should be bothered if purging is done illegally or improperly. I don't want people's votes denied illegally no matter what party they belong to.

This is a September 2008 report that speaks to the impact of improper purging in previous election years:

Quote:
Vanishing Voters:
Why Registered Voters Fall Off the Rolls

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...ers_update.pdf

Of the many problems with the 2000 election, one of the most appalling and least discussed was irresponsible purging of registered voters from the voting rolls. The problem was, and remains, significant. The Elections Assistance Commission, an independent, bipartisan commission created by the Help America Vote Act, reported that Arkansas incorrectly purged 3% of its voters between the 2004 federal election and 2006 mid-term elections. Florida and Missouri struck over 100,000 legal voters from the eligible voters list before the 2000 federal election. In Florida alone, 57,700 voters were dropped from the rolls leading up to the election, 90.2 percent of whom should have been left on. These weaknesses in the voter registration process can potentially affect election outcomes. The margin of victory for President Bush in Florida was 537 votes. Thus, if Florida’s 52,000 disenfranchised voters had been able to vote, there could have been a different outcome. Regardless of which political party is disadvantaged by improper voter roll purges, the denial of the right to vote — especially if done without notification or recourse — is an unacceptable violation of America's democratic principles. The elected officials that lead America derive “their just powers from the consent of the governed.” Improper voter roll purges strike at the heart of the essential social contract between the governed and the government...
.....

Finally, and even more alarmingly, HAVA does not require that provisional ballots be counted; thus, states do not always count them. This occurs even when the ballots could affect the election results. For example, in the 2004 presidential election, the number of provisional ballots not counted in New Mexico outnumbered the margin of victory for George W. Bush.
It is clear that improper purging may have affected results in those prior elections and could do so again in 2008 and it is distressing that "provisional ballots" may or may not be counted by the states - even if the purge was proven to be in error!

Many believe the 2000 election was stolen. With a 537 vote margin and 52,000 voters disenfranchised in the pivotal state of Florida where the "winner's" brother was governor, it's small wonder!

NO ONE (Democrats, Republicans or Independents) should have to worry that their vote is stolen!

Last edited by DownSouth; 11-02-2008 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 11-02-2008, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

There are states that could be ILLEGALLY purging voters, and you think that's in regards to "ACORN"????


This has nothing to do with "ACORN".

Well my statement was more along the lines of; Poll worker to ACORN community organizer "Hey we got a lot of work to do here so please quit dumping ALL YOUR CRAP on top of our work pile."

And there is no "beginning" regarding ACORN.
What ACORN EMPLOYEES have done, in order to get a paycheck they didn't deserve, is commit REGISTRATION fraud. No illegal "voting" has been shown.
WRONG!

and they have also "provided the opportunity" for unscrupulous poll workers to be able to commit fraud.

So let's put our cards on the table.
I FULLY SUPPORT investigating ACORN and stopping any illegal voter registration.
Do YOU support investigating the actions described in this article???
Do YOU support stopping illegal voter purging?

Funny how just the way you phrase your question proves how absurd you are on this subject.........The elections peoples JOB is to keep the registrations valid and up to date. They do a TREMENDOUS job of it and to you if they should make a small easily correctable mistake then they are ILLEGAL and nasty assed corrupted jerks.

Duh! ever heard of a "provisional ballot"
Problem solved.

By the way turns out that only about 1/3 of provisional ballots are EVER accepted because the PURGING is usually proper. Keep in mind also that purging is not the only source for provisional ballots.

By the way that first case of that first Fla voter that was "denied" access to the polls during Gores attempted theft of the 2000 election is still waiting for a plaintiff.

EVERYBODY that should vote IS allowed to vote and many that SHOULDN"T be allowed get to vote too.
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: State to notify 4,770 their votes are ‘challenged’

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1 View Post
Well my statement was more along the lines of; Poll worker to ACORN community organizer "Hey we got a lot of work to do here so please quit dumping ALL YOUR CRAP on top of our work pile."
Yeah.
Quit registering voters to take part in their civic right of voting...


Does the stuff you say sound good to you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1
WRONG!
So that's it.

Just "wrong", with absolutely no follow-through...
You are the king of meaningless responses...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1
and they have also "provided the opportunity" for unscrupulous poll workers to be able to commit fraud.
Quite frankly, your complaint is like saying an organization that feeds the hungry provides an "opportunity" to increase the number of fat kids in the country.
Or a place selling alcohol "provides the opportunity" for drunk teen-agers.
Or a gun sales place "provides the opportunity" for bank robbers...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1
Funny how just the way you phrase your question proves how absurd you are on this subject.........
Say WHAAA????
As pointed out in the article, numerous states are involved in actions that could be legally classified as ILLEGAL VOTE PURGING.
That is THE LAW.

Quite frankly, I find the mind-set of hindering potential voters based on voting because of potential voter fraud as stupid.
The obvious solution is to REGISTER the voters, and then do the best you can to CATCH any existing voter fraud.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1
The elections peoples JOB is to keep the registrations valid and up to date. They do a TREMENDOUS job of it and to you if they should make a small easily correctable mistake then they are ILLEGAL and nasty assed corrupted jerks.
This article describes something that is FAR FROM a "small easily correctable mistake".
1) They are notifying these people LATE in the game.
2) The requirements for proving their vote is valid is absurd.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1
By the way turns out that only about 1/3 of provisional ballots are EVER accepted because the PURGING is usually proper. Keep in mind also that purging is not the only source for provisional ballots.
It also turns out you make up 95% of your statistics.
I hereby challenge you to show any proof of your claim, but wholeheartedly expect you to show absolutely none...
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