Barack Obama Supports Small Business - Page 3

dabateman · #21 (**permalink**) 10-06-2008, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

Payroll is a pure expense, talk to any business owner and they'll tell you the same thing.

Through that whole post, you completely ignored the results of higher prices on those who can least afford it. Raising expences means either raising prices cutting expenses in other areas. It's simple math. Unavoidable and inescapable math. All of the elitist crap of making a better product and selling it at a higher price means jack to someone who just got priced out of buying from a small business and now has to buy it at a "big box" store or find something else to cut back on in order to afford the same product.

This is the problem with small business owners. It's a fundamental problem where they view their employee as an expense or liability instead of an investment or asset. The small businesses that have succeeded have focused on keeping their greatest asset.

I ignored the issue of higher prices because it's not an issue. You are simply making it an issue without realizing the broader implications. Part of being a business owner is realizing that you can either do the job you set out to do in a responsible manner, or you close shop. That's the decision we made with our business. The few months of struggling allowed us reap the benefits of providing better customer service by keeping better employees so the problem took care of itself.

Consumers ultimately make the decision on where to shop. The only way to ensure the longevity of small business is to encourage customers to shop at small businesses. The only way to encourage customers to shop at a small business is to make them competitive. There are two primary methods of competition. Quality and price. Attempting to make small businesses competitive in terms of price is absurd. You've pointed out the absurdity in your own argument. Therefore the businesses should be competitive in terms of quality. Competition in terms of quality allows the business to make more money and customers will ultimately choose quality over price. Sure, there are always going to be a segment of the market that is budget only, but a focus on quality allows a bigger market share for individuals who are trying to make it in small business.

It's not elitist, it's realist.

saltwn · #22 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

Talking with my employer, if Sen. Obama is elected, a lot of businesses of the size we are will go down. Right now, we're just about breaking even and Sen Obama's tax plan will increase our taxes substantially. Unless the economy dramatically turns around and home building picks up again, we may very well close our doors. That would mean that no twould this company fold, but so would the community that it's in. This town is completely dependent on the company I work for and as we go, so does the town. If Sen. Obama is elected and his tax plan is put in place, there's a good chance that this community will pretty much dry up and blow away, along with about 2,000 jobs. This scenario will be repeated across the country as business of our size get hit hard by the tax increases that Sen. Obama is proposing.

I'm sure if your job does go away, you will blame it on Obama.(And you won't have to hark back to Clinton for blame.

), but a lot of people have already lost their jobs. And Obama's not even in office yet. The Obama Biden plan to jump start the economy consists of many more features. I only posted these and one in another thread for discussion of these details.
So, what do you have to say about lowering capitol gains tax on small business?

saltwn · #23 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Unless your employer thinks McCain is going to fart rainbows out of his arse, and Palin's going to track them down to find the pots of gold where they land...

Somebody needs to put together a booklet of "Classic foundit Quotes"

We could make a mint.

saltwn · #24 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Hey, Micheal J. Fooks, this isn't Back to the Future.

Deal with what is and what might be, not what WAS.

Bush isn't running.

John McCain has different ideas than George W. Bush.

Yes, there is a God in heaven.

saltwn · #25 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

No, I'll "deal" with it IF it happens.

And if it does, we'll ALL have to deal with it.

And with every increasingly Socialist/Communist, anti-small business, tax & spend proposal, anti-Patriotic, sneaky and unethical move he makes
you will think of me telling you to "deal with it."

http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/ele...-new-post.html
Read it and weep.

saltwn · #26 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 02:07 AM

[quote=faithful_servant;42900]There's the problem, he's cutting the throat of businesses with more than $250,000 in income (that's us). His proposals also include increasing the taxes on inventory (I believe that's part of the whole capital gains tax) and that's the big killer. We pay more taxes on our inventory than on our income and Sen. Obama is going directly after that money.

No, what I said was that the market impact is the result of people's opinions. The effect of that is rolling downhill and hitting more and more people. The specific sector of the economy that I'm employed in is DIRECTLY impacted by housing and that means that we are feeling the hit right now. Four years of losing money would put us under.[quote]

Quote:

OVER and OVER again it's the same damn thing.
"Obama's going to hurt us. Obama's going to hurt us."
But Bush has been a ray of light for us all over the last 8 years...

Sen. Obama's plans are short-sighted and will damage this country substantially over the long haul. Increasing taxes on the very people who have the financial ability to pull us out of this situation only exascerbates the situation.

When speaking of Reagan's trickle down theory in relation to the farmer, Jerry Clower (the mouth of the South) said, "It done trickled all over us!"

saltwn · #27 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

He plans to raise the minimum wage to $9.50/hr. by 2011.

How will small businesses be able to withstand what would turn out to be a nearly 85% increase in the minimum wage in a span of just five years?

And then there is this.

Did you read the initial post on this thread? He plans to eliminate capitol gains tax on small businesses and start ups.

faithful_servant · #28 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

"elitist crap"???
You want to talk "elitist"?

There is MOUNDS of evidence and data showing what has REALLY GONE ON over the years.

Historical Income Tables - Families
Under Clinton (1992-2000) average ("mean") household income rose $15164.
Under Bush (2000-2007) average ("mean") household income fell $348.
This is adjusted for inflation under "2007 dollars"

If you scroll down to "MALE HOUSEHOLDER, NO SPOUSE PRESENT", the difference is even scarier.
Clinton had average income in this category rise by $13,662.
Bush had average income in this category fall by $7,149.
That's a gap of $20,811 dollars!

"Class warfare"?
The Republicans have been waging it against the "fundamentals of our economy" FOR YEARS.

And if you check this compared to the "CEO" paycheck???
THAT keeps going up...

And you want to hear something REALLY funny???
Under Clinton, the rich did INCREDIBLY WELL.
Even thought Clinton was a "democrat" with all the crap you want to associate with Democrats, neo-cons can't wrap their head around the fact that their "doom and gloom" predictions were PROVEN COMPLETELY FALSE UNDER CLINTON...

So if I were to believe Republicans in their "they're going to fire people cause the rich get taxed", what they are really saying is that to keep that CEO paycheck rising, they're going to fire some of those people's whose incomes they have been DROPPING ALL THIS TIME...

So, instead sticking to the subject, you change it... just what I've come to expect from you...

faithful_servant · #29 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman

This is the problem with small business owners. It's a fundamental problem where they view their employee as an expense or liability instead of an investment or asset. The small businesses that have succeeded have focused on keeping their greatest asset.

EMPLOYEES are an asset, but their PAY is an expense. Sorry, if the sub tlies of reality confused you.

Quote:

I ignored the issue of higher prices because it's not an issue. You are simply making it an issue without realizing the broader implications. Part of being a business owner is realizing that you can either do the job you set out to do in a responsible manner, or you close shop. That's the decision we made with our business. The few months of struggling allowed us reap the benefits of providing better customer service by keeping better employees so the problem took care of itself.

Higher prices are THE issue. They make businesses LESS competitive, shrink their customer base and reduce their ability to react to market changes. This is high school Economics stuff.

Quote:

Consumers ultimately make the decision on where to shop. The only way to ensure the longevity of small business is to encourage customers to shop at small businesses. The only way to encourage customers to shop at a small business is to make them competitive. There are two primary methods of competition. Quality and price. Attempting to make small businesses competitive in terms of price is absurd. You've pointed out the absurdity in your own argument. Therefore the businesses should be competitive in terms of quality. Competition in terms of quality allows the business to make more money and customers will ultimately choose quality over price. Sure, there are always going to be a segment of the market that is budget only, but a focus on quality allows a bigger market share for individuals who are trying to make it in small business.

It's not elitist, it's realist.

There it is, the elitist idea that everyone can afford to pay top dollar in order to get the best. Most people cannot afford to pay top dollar for the best, that's why you don't see too many welfare recipients driving brand new AMG C-6.3's. But, when you can stand up in your ivory tower and tell people that they should buy only the best quality because it's a better value, the rest of just roll our eyes, knowing that we are going to buy the best VALUE for our money. That's what drives businesses, not price, not quality, VALUE. If I can buy a $1 can opener that's going to last me 1 year or a $100 can opener that going to last me 50 years, I'm going to buy the $1 version and replace it every year because that's where the VALUE is. Is the $100 can opener a better can opener? Definitely. Is it a better value?? Sorry Charlie, but that's no bargain. From the sound of your perspective, we should all be buying the $100 model, but those of us living in the real world understand that VALUE is the driving force behind our buying decisions, not just price, not just qualtiy, but VALUE. VALUE is where small businesses will get thier butts kicked if they have to raise prices (because their costs just got increased with no benefit to them) without improving the quality of their product or service.

foundit66 · #30 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

So, instead sticking to the subject, you change it... just what I've come to expect from you...

This is all very much part of the subject.
Let me put it in more precise bullets.

1) To claim Obama will "harm" small business ignores the fact that he is just correcting a societal shift that Bush has brought about over his years. The gap between "rich" and "not rich" has widened by an extreme margin.
Correcting that widening of the gap is not "harm".

2) To claim Obama will "harm" small businesses ignores the fact that he is bringing the situation back TO WHERE IT HAS ALREADY BEEN.
It's like having a price-tag of $3.00. Within a week, the price-tag gets raised to $3.50, and sales suffer.
Somebody decides to bring the price back to $3.00, and then the neo-cons jump up and down that doing so will cause lay-offs, create wide-spread panic, cause cats and dogs to mate in the streets, etc, etc, etc...

3) To claim Obama will "harm" small business is ignoring how small business has changed over the years. When the head of the company raises his pay by 25%, and his workers by a measly 5%...
And then he faces higher taxes, so he decides to continue his 25% trend while cutting his work-force...
The REASON for the work-force cut should not be blindly attributed to the "taxes".
The greedy head of the company is lining his pockets, AT THE EXPENSE of his company.

Does that help?
Or can I expect you to ignore things all over again?

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