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Elections Discuss Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by FrancSevin ANY MINIMUM WAGE LAW IS A DECEPTION LAID ON THE PEOPLE. It devalues the currency and ...

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Old 07-29-2016, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
ANY MINIMUM WAGE LAW IS A DECEPTION LAID ON THE PEOPLE.

It devalues the currency and the worth of work performed.
It creates no wealth for anyone. Not the rich and most certainly, not the poor.
Once again this is nonsense. The devaluation of currency is due exclusively based upon the relationship between fiat currency (promissory notes issued by the Federal Reserve) and the value of "lawful money" (i.e. American Eagle gold coins) that have to be purchased in the free market.

The wealth is already being created. The United States produces about $16 trillion worth of wealth today based upon the "workers" that actually produce the goods and provide the services. That's four times more than what is necessary for every working household to have more than enough income to live a decent lifestyle where no working households live in poverty.

We know, for example, that productivity since 1970 increased by 80% while compensation only increased by about 1/2 as much (i.e. about 40%). The workers are already producing way more than they're getting paid for today.
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage

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This is right-wing economic nonsense.

Inflation is exclusively due to the expansion of the money supply (fiat currency) and not due to the costs of providing goods and services that have been consistently going down since the industrial revolution.

The minimum wage is not wealth redistribution. Wealth redistribution occurs when money is taken from the wealthy and given to the poor. Employee compensation is a "cost of enterprise" and it's no different than the rent, utilities or other expenditures and is not a component of the "profits" that the owners of the enterprise realize. The minimum wage represents an "expense" of the enterprise while the "profits" are what's left over after all expenditures so the owner is not harmed by the increase in the cost of compensation for employment and it actually increase the "profits" because profits are always based upon a percentage of what's left over after expenditures.

For example if the company spends $100 on operating expenses and has a 10% profit margin then the profits are $10. If the operating expenses go up to $110 then the 10% profit margin results in $11 in profits going into the owners pocket. The owner actually earns more profit based upon the profit margin as the costs of operations increase.

The minimum wage, applied across the board, doesn't result in any competitive advantage or disadvantage for any enterprise. All it does in provide a "level playing field" for all enterprises where none can take advantage of a lower labor cost in their business for a pricing advantage to the customers.

There's only one real pragmatic consideration when addressing any increases in costs to the enterprise and that's because these costs need to be accommodated by changes in the business plan. It's difficult for a business plan to adjust to a dramatic change in costs but it's very easy for the business plan to adjust to gradual increases in costs. So pragmatically an increase in the "minimum wage" needs to be a phased increase over time so that the increased costs can be adjusted for by changes to the business plan.

That's one of the problems with our current minimum wage is that it hasn't been gradually increased over time so that the business plan could be adjusted so that it doesn't result in any negative consequences to the enterprises affected. Jumping from $7.25/hr to $10/hr can have negative consequence but, on the other hand, if we only required a 7.5% increase per year we could easily increase the minimum wage from $7.25/hr to over $15/hr in ten years without negatively effecting any enterprise because a 7.5% annual increase in compensation, that only increases to total costs to the enterprise by less than 2% (employee compensation is only about 25% of the costs to the enterprise) can be accommodated by a change to the business plan.

So long as it's a phased implementation it's easily accommodated for but it's a large sudden change that negatively effects the enterprise that can reduce profits. Phased in it actually increases the profits in dollars for the owners.
We can argue the point of minimum wage all day as we have before., and never agree, EVER! That is not the issue.

The issue is that THE Donald is now coming out for it. This is a game changer for much of his current base.
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
We can argue the point of minimum wage all day as we have before., and never agree, EVER! That is not the issue.

The issue is that THE Donald is now coming out for it. This is a game changer for much of his current base.
Donald Trump's changing opinion on anything is nothing new. There's only one thing that Donald Trump consistently believes in and that's Donald Trump. Reality has absolutely nothing to do with Trump's opinion on anything including his over-inflated opinion of himself.

Why would this be a game-changer for his base? They've ignored everything else about Donald Trump so far so why would this change anything?
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage

trump is not a conservative.
and while some have known from the beginning and some are just now realizing it he's counting on his base that will vote for him even if he killed someone to continue their support.
he gave the cruz crowd the finger and ran so fast to the left he tripped over the middle just to court the bernie bernouts.
surprised...?...shouldn't be...
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Donald Trump's changing opinion on anything is nothing new. There's only one thing that Donald Trump consistently believes in and that's Donald Trump. Reality has absolutely nothing to do with Trump's opinion on anything including his over-inflated opinion of himself.

Why would this be a game-changer for his base? They've ignored everything else about Donald Trump so far so why would this change anything?
he won the GOP primary by appealing to conservatives. Minimum wage is hardly acceptable to a conservative viewpoint.
It bothers me, but not enough to give Hillary my vote.
My primary concerns are about the SCOTUS, tax funded Abortion on demand, (along with other costly positive rights) and our sovereignty.

Minimum wage is economic and only means we will have inflation and loss of entry level employment. Not good but the Republic will survive that. It will not survive bad Judge appointments.
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage

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Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
trump is not a conservative.
and while some have known from the beginning and some are just now realizing it he's counting on his base that will vote for him even if he killed someone to continue their support.
he gave the cruz crowd the finger and ran so fast to the left he tripped over the middle just to court the bernie bernouts.
surprised...?...shouldn't be...
I wouldn't say I am surprised by this just really disappointed me.

Trump never was my guy. He is just what we ended up with. Franky he could shoot some one and I would still vote for him over Hillary who rumor has it, herself put a good many people in the ground.
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:58 AM
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Post Re: Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
We can argue the point of minimum wage all day as we have before., and never agree, EVER! That is not the issue.
No. Actually we can't argue all day long.

Liberals bring facts to the table.
The reason you can't argue for that long is you got nothing but platitudes...

The real reason you want to dodge that argument is because you don't have anything to back your opinion. Ergo, others who do have the facts please stop talking about it...

The real reason our economy isn't performing as well as it should is because the middle / lower class are stalled out on income. Republicans notice when they want to blame Obama, but otherwise they have nothing.
REPEATEDLY we have economic analysis demonstrating minimum wage increase will BOOST our economy. But the right doesn't care or comprehend.
HISTORICAL evidence documents this.
http://www.epi.org/publication/its-t...-minimum-wage/
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...wage-gdp-jobs/
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/reich/...my-5298319.php
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatt...wage-increase/

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The issue is that THE Donald is now coming out for it. This is a game changer for much of his current base.

Some people seem to have an image of Trump in their minds and just are completely oblivious to who the man is and what he has done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin
he won the GOP primary by appealing to conservatives.
He won it with an emotional appeal.
Some people applaud his visceral attacks.

Repubs claim they're about reducing the deficit.
Countless Economists point out his plan will RAISE the deficit, and the right ignores the truth.

At this stage, I think the true deal breaker is if that man started earnestly practicing civility and diplomacy.
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Old 07-29-2016, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage

So Trump went from saying wages were too high, to leave the minimum as it is, to there should be no federal minimum wage, to now a $10 floor, $2.25 higher than the current federal level. Either he's bullish-tting, again, or he really means it and I think Franc covered the rest on the conservative take on that economic issue lol.

You know I think I can see why so many Republicans jumped ship and starred at the DNC and openly pledged to vote for Hillary. Besides all the other goofy-to-ignorant-to-dangerous stuff he's said.
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Old 07-29-2016, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage

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Originally Posted by Deckard View Post
A report that analyzed every minimum-wage hike since 1938 should put a bunch of nonsense ideas to rest
But that isn't the whole issue, what it doesn't tell you is the decline of the middle class also started in 1938, and today is no longer the majority. Minimum wage while not job killing as some love to say isn't wealth growing ether. Who pays for that increase in cost, you or the businesses? While the cost at McDonalds may not go up, the cost of a meal at the corner dinner will. How about a gallon of milk, the current avg nation wide is $3.97, would you be willing to pay 5 bucks a gallon?

It's foolish to believe that no negative repercussions come from any raise in the minimum wage, its also foolish to believe that while not job killing that it doesn't effect job growth or access to entry level positions. As a business owner you have to ask yourself, are you willing to take on the added expense of a new unproven employee now that you are having to pay so much more for them. Is the cost of adding help for the busy season going to pay off now that that cost has increased? Most minimum wage increases are only beneficial in the short term, until cost catch up and absorb the new wealth on the table.
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Old 07-29-2016, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: Trump calls for $10 hour minimum wage

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Originally Posted by Mellon_Collie View Post
But that isn't the whole issue, what it doesn't tell you is the decline of the middle class also started in 1938, and today is no longer the majority. Minimum wage while not job killing as some love to say isn't wealth growing ether. Who pays for that increase in cost, you or the businesses? While the cost at McDonalds may not go up, the cost of a meal at the corner dinner will. How about a gallon of milk, the current avg nation wide is $3.97, would you be willing to pay 5 bucks a gallon?

It's foolish to believe that no negative repercussions come from any raise in the minimum wage, its also foolish to believe that while not job killing that it doesn't effect job growth or access to entry level positions. As a business owner you have to ask yourself, are you willing to take on the added expense of a new unproven employee now that you are having to pay so much more for them. Is the cost of adding help for the busy season going to pay off now that that cost has increased? Most minimum wage increases are only beneficial in the short term, until cost catch up and absorb the new wealth on the table.


Could not have said it more succinctly myself.
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