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Elections Discuss Historians see little chance for McCain at the Political Forums; That's right...speechifying...MATTERS a LOT! There have been other candidates throughout our history who's "qualifications" for POTUS were questionable but they ...

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Old 06-17-2008, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Historians see little chance for McCain

That's right...speechifying...MATTERS a LOT!

There have been other candidates throughout our history who's "qualifications" for POTUS were questionable but they were able to dazzle the crowd and word began to spread.Never underestimate the WOW factor.

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Old 06-17-2008, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Historians see little chance for McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Not to interrupt you guys,but Regan was a good 'speechifyer' and I believe that is what got him elected.
But Reagan was also a former Governor...

He had a LONG record on positions and issues (compared to Obama whose record is less than one term) and executive experience (which Obama has none)...

In other words, Reagan was a good 'speechifyer'...but he had the goods to back it up...

Obama has....ummm...errr....uhhh....

nice suits?...
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:41 PM
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Post Re: Historians see little chance for McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
I don't think he's an outright racist, but A) He was complicitly silent when racism was spewed...and B) he does show certain Black Liberation Theology beliefs...
Again with this Rev Wright crap?
Anybody even know if he was present for that particular 10 second sound-bite?
And despite the fact that I keep asking and others keep implying, I have yet to see any other evidence of the "old" Rev Wright extremism beyond a 10 second sound-bite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd
Example - From the speech you linked...
"Original sin" is a biblical reference meaning that man is BORN GUILTY due to the "fall of man"...
What Obama is saying is ...
I am really underwhelmed at how you take 10 words from a speech that was MUCH longer than that, IGNORE the rest, make up your OWN interpretation, and condemn the man based on that...
Unfortunately, that's pretty much how a lot of criticism of Obama goes...

I completely disagree with your assessment.
First of all, he was referring to the DOCUMENT being stained with original sin. NOT the white people, which you so quickly misrepresent...
And that document WAS stained. It held blacks as less than a "white" person.

Obama's speech also contains the following:
This is where we are right now. It's a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy - particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own.

But I have asserted a firm conviction - a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people - that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice is we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farnsworth, L.P.
Speeches mean jack, especially canned hyperbolic, buzz word, and meme ridden pieces of fluff like that one.
People's own words as far as their personal beliefs are irrelevant to you.

If anybody needs any real proof of how meaningless some of the condemnation of Obama is, this is a prime example...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Farnsworth, L.P.
Gee, you're right; he only hung around and ultimately got the unqualified endorsements of many of the most racist and thuggish people and organizations in the country ... How silly of us to think 2 or 3 decades of enthusiastically hanging out with notorious antisemites and race baiting cretins means nothing; he made a nifty speech once, after all ...
I would be fascinated to give you enough rope to hang yourself with.
What the heck do you think you're talking about.

Please. Give specifics...
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Historians see little chance for McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Again with this Rev Wright crap?
Anybody even know if he was present for that particular 10 second sound-bite?
And despite the fact that I keep asking and others keep implying, I have yet to see any other evidence of the "old" Rev Wright extremism beyond a 10 second sound-bite.
Dammit!...Open your eyes!...Or maybe your ears and listen to Obama's OWN WORDS...

Political Wrinkles - View Single Post - Obama urges Americans to help heal racial divide

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd
Obama on March 14th...

Quote:
“The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation
Obama on March 18th...

Quote:
Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes.
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Historians see little chance for McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
But Reagan was also a former Governor...

He had a LONG record on positions and issues (compared to Obama whose record is less than one term) and executive experience (which Obama has none)...

In other words, Reagan was a good 'speechifyer'...but he had the goods to back it up...

Obama has....ummm...errr....uhhh....

nice suits?...
I wasn't aware of any of his qualifications through governorship. He spoke about getting rid of welfare queens and illegal immigration; I liked those points so I voted for him.
So I guess that kind of proves your point huh?
rrrrrrrrrrrrrim shot!
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Historians see little chance for McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I wasn't aware of any of his qualifications through governorship. He spoke about getting rid of welfare queens and illegal immigration; I liked those points so I voted for him.
So I guess that kind of proves your point huh?
rrrrrrrrrrrrrim shot!
Actually it doesn't...

You believed his words WITHOUT KNOWING his executive experience and long record...

IMO, that's risky...You got lucky because the guy you admittedly vote for based solely on words had the qulifications and experience to back it up...

But people are doing that same thing today with Obama...and they WON'T be as lucky simply because Obama does NOT have anything to back up his words...
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: Historians see little chance for McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Actually it doesn't...

You believed his words WITHOUT KNOWING his executive experience and long record...

IMO, that's risky...You got lucky because the guy you admittedly vote for based solely on words had the qulifications and experience to back it up...

But people are doing that same thing today with Obama...and they WON'T be as lucky simply because Obama does NOT have anything to back up his words...
There's not much else to go on. We all assumed Bush had at least some pull with his oil buddies. Evidently we were wrong. Bush said things in his speeches that made some people decide to vote for him. So did Regan and Kennedy etcetera.
I have to assume this person, McCain believes what he is telling me. And that he believes in what he is saying.

I say let them debate and see which ideology the people agree with.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:44 PM
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Post Re: Historians see little chance for McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Dammit!...Open your eyes!...Or maybe your ears and listen to Obama's OWN WORDS...

Political Wrinkles - View Single Post - Obama urges Americans to help heal racial divide

Obama on March 14th...
Quote:
“The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation

Obama on March 18th...
Quote:
Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes.
Surely I don't need to explain the difference between a SPECIFIC reference to words "that are the cause of this controversy" and "fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy" / "considered controversial".

Evidently, Obama heard SOME words, but not THE words that make up the 10 second sound-bite.

Moreover, considering I still see ONLY the 10 second sound-bite, a logical conclusion is that "fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy" / "considered controversial" are nowhere near as inflammatory as "damn America".
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Historians see little chance for McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
There's not much else to go on. We all assumed Bush had at least some pull with his oil buddies. Evidently we were wrong. Bush said things in his speeches that made some people decide to vote for him. So did Regan and Kennedy etcetera.
I have to assume this person, McCain believes what he is telling me. And that he believes in what he is saying.

I say let them debate and see which ideology the people agree with.
Ideologies aren't the defining factor...

BACKING UP ideologies is...

What if YOU agreed with 100% of EVERYTHING Obama or McCain said...

Does that mean that YOU are as qualified to get those same things done?...

Of course not!(no offense to you of course)...

You need someone with clout...with experience...you need the wherewithall to actually get things done...Just SAYING what you want to do doesn't mean you can do it...

PERFECT EXAMPLE - Didn't the Democrats gain both houses of Congress in 2006 running on a platform of removing the US from Iraq?...

Yup...So why hasn't that happened?...Because they don't have the 'nads to take the action needed...They kno damn well pulling the funding will DESTROY them politically, so they sit there and fail from every other angle...

Ideology in place?...Check...A pair of brass ones to put the ideology into action?...Not found...

That's the difference between McCain and Obama...With McCain, nomatter what he's talking about, you can go to his record...you acn go to his history...you can dig into his past votes...It's all there in black and white...

Buth with Obama, nomatter what he's talking about you CAN'T go to his record or past votes...he's been around for LESS than 1 term!...His record is virtually BLANK!...

So the ONLY thing anyone can vote for Obama with is WORDS...no ACTIONS...just WORDS...

You want to elect a president in that fashion?...
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Historians see little chance for McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Ideologies aren't the defining factor...

BACKING UP ideologies is...

What if YOU agreed with 100% of EVERYTHING Obama or McCain said...

Does that mean that YOU are as qualified to get those same things done?...

Of course not!(no offense to you of course)...

You need someone with clout...with experience...you need the wherewithall to actually get things done...Just SAYING what you want to do doesn't mean you can do it...

PERFECT EXAMPLE - Didn't the Democrats gain both houses of Congress in 2006 running on a platform of removing the US from Iraq?...

Yup...So why hasn't that happened?...Because they don't have the 'nads to take the action needed...They kno damn well pulling the funding will DESTROY them politically, so they sit there and fail from every other angle...

Ideology in place?...Check...A pair of brass ones to put the ideology into action?...Not found...

That's the difference between McCain and Obama...With McCain, nomatter what he's talking about, you can go to his record...you acn go to his history...you can dig into his past votes...It's all there in black and white...

Buth with Obama, nomatter what he's talking about you CAN'T go to his record or past votes...he's been around for LESS than 1 term!...His record is virtually BLANK!...

So the ONLY thing anyone can vote for Obama with is WORDS...no ACTIONS...just WORDS...

You want to elect a president in that fashion?...
I don't know why you and your ilk continue to "blah, blah, blah" about the Dems not prosecuting the end of the war, knowing full well, that a sizable portion of Repubs are needed to push through any legislation because the margin of the majority could not be thinner. Impeachment ought to be on the table, but because we, too, have leaders within the party that lack cojones, and conviction (Pelosi, Reid, to name a few), nothing can be done....come November, hopefully, new leaders will emerge and then we, the Dems, can get stuff done without needing Republican impetus.
And I don't know what you're talking about...ol' flip flopping Mc Same is about a joke, if ever there was....he is now hitting on Obama about his support for a windfall profits tax, and just recently, he announced that he was open to the prospect....what a dope. He can't remember if he was for something, or against it.
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