Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11 - Page 3

winston53660 · #21 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 03:48 AM

What I find amazing is nobody is nobody has talked about what the Rev. Wright was trying to say to his audience.

winston53660 · #22 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 03:49 AM

What I find amazing is nobody has talked about what the Rev. Wright was trying to say to his audience.

AlicornsPrayer · #23 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winston53660

What I find amazing is nobody is nobody has talked about what the Rev. Wright was trying to say to his audience.

Actually, I did...But it was all lost inbetween the rest of the discussion about whether or not the organization was part of Obama's campaign...ROTFLMAOL!

But since it was lost in the rest of the discussion, here's where it's at and what I said... http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/ele...html#post19727

Quote:

Guess next you'll be calling me anti-American, or holding anti-American sentiments since I happen to agree that it was our own goverment's previous actions that helped to bring on the actions of 9-11? Because our goverment isn't totally blameless in what occurred that day. If we'd done things differently early on in the ME, as well as did things differently right here at home, it may not have happened...Or at least the fatalities wouldn't have been so high.

Which reminds me...I found this interesting article when someone posted a different article about Hillary...It's a very interesting read about how people are going after Wright for what he said on the pulpit, but have applauded other ministers for saying worse? LOL!
Frank Schaeffer: Obama's Minister Committed "Treason" But When My Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero - Politics on The Huffington Post

Quote:

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

Consider a few passages from my father's immensely influential America-bashing book A Christian Manifesto. It sailed under the radar of the major media who, back when it was published in 1980, were not paying particular attention to best-selling religious books. Nevertheless it sold more than a million copies.

Here's Dad writing in his chapter on civil disobedience:
If there is a legitimate reason for the use of force [against the US government]... then at a certain point force is justifiable.

And this:
In the United States the materialistic, humanistic world view is being taught exclusively in most state schools... There is an obvious parallel between this and the situation in Russia [the USSR]. And we really must not be blind to the fact that indeed in the public schools in the United States all religious influence is as forcibly forbidden as in the Soviet Union....

Then this:
There does come a time when force, even physical force, is appropriate... A true Christian in Hitler's Germany and in the occupied countries should have defied the false and counterfeit state. This brings us to a current issue that is crucial for the future of the church in the United States, the issue of abortion... It is time we consciously realize that when any office commands what is contrary to God's law it abrogates it's authority. And our loyalty to the God who gave this law then requires that we make the appropriate response in that situation...

Was any conservative political leader associated with Dad running for cover? Far from it. Dad was a frequent guest of the Kemps, had lunch with the Fords, stayed in the White House as their guest, he met with Reagan, helped Dr. C. Everett Koop become Surgeon General. (I went on the 700 Club several times to generate support for Koop).

Dad became a hero to the evangelical community and a leading political instigator. When Dad died in 1984 everyone from Reagan to Kemp to Billy Graham lamented his passing publicly as the loss of a great American. Not one Republican leader was ever asked to denounce my dad or distanced himself from Dad's statements.

Take Dad's words and put them in the mouth of Obama's preacher (or in the mouth of any black American preacher) and people would be accusing that preacher of treason. Yet when we of the white Religious Right denounced America white conservative Americans and top political leaders, called our words "godly" and "prophetic" and a "call to repentance."

We Republican agitators of the mid 1970s to the late 1980s were genuinely anti-American in the same spirit that later Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (both followers of my father) were anti-American when they said God had removed his blessing from America on 9/11, because America accepted gays. Falwell and Robertson recanted but we never did.

My dad's books denouncing America and comparing the USA to Hitler are still best sellers in the "respectable" evangelical community and he's still hailed as a prophet by many Republican leaders. When Mike Huckabee was recently asked by Katie Couric to name one book he'd take with him to a desert island, besides the Bible, he named Dad's Whatever Happened to the Human Race? a book where Dad also compared America to Hitler's Germany.

The hypocrisy of the right denouncing Obama, because of his minister's words, is staggering. They are the same people who argue for the right to "bear arms" as "insurance" to limit government power. They are the same people that (in the early 1980s roared and cheered when I called down damnation on America as "fallen away from God" at their national meetings where I was keynote speaker, including the annual meeting of the ultraconservative Southern Baptist convention, and the religious broadcasters that I addressed.

Today we have a marriage of convenience between the right wing fundamentalists who hate Obama, and the "progressive" Clintons who are playing the race card through their own smear machine. As Jane Smiley writes in the Huffington Post "[The Clinton's] are, indeed, now part of the 'vast right wing conspiracy.' (Jane Smiley: I'm Already Against the Next War - Politics on The Huffington Post )

Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the "scandal" of Obama's preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama's minister had a valid point. There is plenty to yell about these days.

Frank Schaeffer is a writer and author of "CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back

saltwn · #24 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 04:21 PM

The audio of the entire sermon and parts of it are being downloaded over the internet.
I will not post it here. (Someone may have already-I didn't re-read the posts closely). You can find it if you like, I'm sure.
But the point is this is going to hurt the Obama campaign -as I'm sure it was meant to do. There are a lot of voting Christians in this country and many don't call themselves right wing Republicans, but will find it hard to over look this blasphemy from the pulpit.
As a Christian I have NEVER heard a preacher curse from the pulpit. And this is what "God damn" is is cursing.
As I said, I don't think it is fair to drag up everything about people who support you, never-the-less and like it or not this WILL be a big factor. It will not go away because political opponents have seen some damage and will keep grinding that wound till it bleeds.

crazyflamingos · #25 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

The audio of the entire sermon and parts of it are being downloaded over the internet.
I will not post it here. (Someone may have already-I didn't re-read the posts closely). You can find it if you like, I'm sure.
But the point is this is going to hurt the Obama campaign -as I'm sure it was meant to do. There are a lot of voting Christians in this country and many don't call themselves right wing Republicans, but will find it hard to over look this blasphemy from the pulpit.
As a Christian I have NEVER heard a preacher curse from the pulpit. And this is what "God damn" is is cursing.
As I said, I don't think it is fair to drag up everything about people who support you, never-the-less and like it or not this WILL be a big factor. It will not go away because political opponents have seen some damage and will keep grinding that wound till it bleeds.

I have often heard ministers say that someone will be damned for some act or another or that God damned someone or some group. I don't see how this is much different. But I imagine the anti-Obama crowd will seize on the difference try and make points.

Spencer Collins · #26 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

The audio of the entire sermon and parts of it are being downloaded over the internet.
I will not post it here. (Someone may have already-I didn't re-read the posts closely). You can find it if you like, I'm sure.
But the point is this is going to hurt the Obama campaign -as I'm sure it was meant to do. There are a lot of voting Christians in this country and many don't call themselves right wing Republicans, but will find it hard to over look this blasphemy from the pulpit.
As a Christian I have NEVER heard a preacher curse from the pulpit. And this is what "God damn" is is cursing.
As I said, I don't think it is fair to drag up everything about people who support you, never-the-less and like it or not this WILL be a big factor. It will not go away because political opponents have seen some damage and will keep grinding that wound till it bleeds.

Obama has done everything he can to distance himself from his "ex" pastor and his comments. I don't think it will play a heavy roll in Obama's campaighn.It's not good but Obama can weather this storm. Many candidates have had controversial pastors and when they go after Obama you can be sure Obama's camp will dig up plenty of dirt on other candidates pastors and their comments.That said,I AM concerned that Obama "knowingly" was a member of a church that is pastored by a racist and blasphemer ..

He may not be held accountable for what his pastor says but one does have to question his membership in a church pastored by a man of "questionable" character.If he were my pastor,I would have walked out,never to return.The Lord is a healer and this pastor preaches more division.

cnredd · #27 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyflamingos

[font="Comic Sans MS"]
I have often heard ministers say that someone will be damned for some act or another or that God damned someone or some group. I don't see how this is much different.

And have they been personally called "The biggest mentor in my life" by a presidential candidate?...

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyflamingos

But I imagine the anti-Obama crowd will seize on the difference try and make points.

There's no trying involved when I can do it blindfolded...

Mikeyy · #28 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

The audio of the entire sermon and parts of it are being downloaded over the internet.
I will not post it here. (Someone may have already-I didn't re-read the posts closely). You can find it if you like, I'm sure.
But the point is this is going to hurt the Obama campaign -as I'm sure it was meant to do. There are a lot of voting Christians in this country and many don't call themselves right wing Republicans, but will find it hard to over look this blasphemy from the pulpit.
As a Christian I have NEVER heard a preacher curse from the pulpit. And this is what "God damn" is is cursing.
As I said, I don't think it is fair to drag up everything about people who support you, never-the-less and like it or not this WILL be a big factor. It will not go away because political opponents have seen some damage and will keep grinding that wound till it bleeds.

God damn isn't a curse word. It is a prayer. You are asking god to damn something. It is a plea to god.

cnredd · #29 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd

There's no trying involved when I can do it blindfolded...

Just a little example...

The Trinity United Church "conveniently" removed some of their commentary on the "Aboput Us" section of their website...

Luckily, achiving reveals all...

Here's their website NOW...

But here's what they USED to show...

The difference?...

Right here...

Quote:

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

Now considering this is from the "biggest mentor" in Obama's life, it sure sounds like his pleas of unity and colorblindness is a farce and a charade...

Nice little dig at the middle class, too...

crazyflamingos · #30 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd

And have they been personally called "The biggest mentor in my life" by a presidential candidate?...

There's no trying involved when I can do it blindfolded...

You missed my point. I was simply making the point that I don't see how what he said can honestly be construed as blasphemy unless one believes that any time a minister mentions God damning someone it is blasphemy. Since I grew up in fire and brimstone Baptist Churches, I see such an assertion as "straining at a gnat."

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