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Old 02-19-2008, 12:40 PM
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Default Obama's wife now proud


Oh really?

You became an adult in 1982, yet for the last 26 years you haven't been proud of your country ONCE?...
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Old 02-19-2008, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Obama's wife now proud

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
YouTube - Michelle Obama hasn't ever been proud of the U.S. until now

Oh really?

You became an adult in 1982, yet for the last 26 years you haven't been proud of your country ONCE?...
Wow... there was a molehill you've tried to transform into a mountain.

What has there been to be proud of? In the grand scheme? Since 1982 what important social movements have transpired to improve the country?
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Obama's wife now proud

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
Wow... there was a molehill you've tried to transform into a mountain.

What has there been to be proud of? In the grand scheme? Since 1982 what important social movements have transpired to improve the country?
I could go through the events, but you'll just tut-tut them off..."Mister Gorbechev...Tear down this wall!" are just words after all...

Hubble telescopes, leading the tsunami aid, liberating millions of people in places like Kosovo, Iraq and the Soviet satellites, and even the very fact that every time a new official gets elected into office there's a complete lack of tanks rolling through the streets...They don't mean a thing to you(and Michelle Obama)?...

I'm proud of this country every friggin' day for the things you're taking for granted...Try typing what you just did in a few other countries and see how quickly you land in jail...

This woman went to Harvard and held multiple high-paying jobs throughout her "adult life" in a country that gave her the opportunity to succeed...

But there's nothing to be proud of...
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Obama's wife now proud

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
I could go through the events, but you'll just tut-tut them off..."Mister Gorbechev...Tear down this wall!" are just words after all...
We should be very proud of Gorbechev. I know I am.

Quote:
Hubble telescopes,
An international effort.

Quote:
leading the tsunami aid,
Another international effort.

Quote:
liberating millions of people in places like Kosovo,
An action that the Republicans were against. We weren't united behind that effort.

Quote:
Iraq
We cannot overcome the negatives that are associated with this war.
Quote:
and the Soviet satellites,
Which were freed by Gorbachev and is polices, not the policies of Reagan.

Quote:
and even the very fact that every time a new official gets elected into office there's a complete lack of tanks rolling through the streets...
This is nothing new. Nothing unique.
Quote:
They don't mean a thing to you(and Michelle Obama)?...
Sure, there is always some basic pride, but she said "really proud". You have yet to present something that should make us really proud. The items that you have pointed out were a given, a continuation of the same traditions, or the actions of a foreign government.

Quote:
I'm proud of this country every friggin' day for the things you're taking for granted...Try typing what you just did in a few other countries and see how quickly you land in jail...
I don't take it for granted, but there is no reason to feel really proud. Pride clouds judgment and prevents one from keeping their eyes on the horizon. Pride covers a multitude of sins.

Quote:
This woman went to Harvard and held multiple high-paying jobs throughout her "adult life" in a country that gave her the opportunity to succeed...
The woman would have had the same opportunity in virtually every Western country. Why is this unique? We should be proud for our uniqueness.

Quote:
But there's nothing to be proud of...
Nothing yet...
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: Obama's wife now proud

A couple of years old, but a BRILLIANT commentary from someone whose more proud of his non-native America than Michelle Obama ever could be...

An amazingly great read...

10 things to celebrate
Why I'm an anti-anti-American


Quote:
As an immigrant who has chosen to become an American citizen, I feel especially qualified to say what is special about America. Having grown up in a different society -- in my case, Bombay, India -- I am not only able to identify aspects of America that are invisible to the natives, but I am acutely conscious of the daily blessings that I enjoy in America. Here, then, is my list of the 10 great things about America.

-- America provides an amazingly good life for the ordinary guy. Rich people live well everywhere. But what distinguishes America is that it provides an impressively high standard of living for the "common man." We now live in a country where construction workers regularly pay $4 for a nonfat latte, where maids drive nice cars and where plumbers take their families on vacation to Europe.

Indeed, newcomers to the United States are struck by the amenities enjoyed by "poor" people. This fact was dramatized in the 1980s when CBS television broadcast a documentary, "People Like Us," intended to show the miseries of the poor during an ongoing recession. The Soviet Union also broadcast the documentary, with a view to embarrassing the Reagan administration. But by the testimony of former Soviet leaders, it had the opposite effect. Ordinary people across the Soviet Union saw that the poorest Americans have TV sets, microwave ovens and cars. They arrived at the same perception that I witnessed in an acquaintance of mine from Bombay who has been unsuccessfully trying to move to the United States. I asked him, "Why are you so eager to come to America?" He replied, "I really want to live in a country where the poor people are fat."

-- America offers more opportunity and social mobility than any other country, including the countries of Europe. America is the only country that has created a population of "self-made tycoons." Only in America could Pierre Omidyar, whose parents are Iranian and who grew up in Paris, have started a company like eBay. Only in America could Vinod Khosla, the son of an Indian army officer, become a leading venture capitalist, the shaper of the technology industry, and a billionaire to boot. Admittedly tycoons are not typical, but no country has created a better ladder than America for people to ascend from modest circumstances to success.

-- Work and trade are respectable in America. Historically most cultures have despised the merchant and the laborer, regarding the former as vile and corrupt and the latter as degraded and vulgar. Some cultures, such as that of ancient Greece and medieval Islam, even held that it is better to acquire things through plunder than through trade or contract labor. But the American founders altered this moral hierarchy. They established a society in which the life of the businessman, and of the people who worked for him, would be a noble calling. In the American view, there is nothing vile or degraded about serving your customers either as a CEO or as a waiter. The ordinary life of production and supporting a family is more highly valued in the United States than in any other country. America is the only country in the world where we call the waiter "sir," as if he were a knight.

-- America has achieved greater social equality than any other society. True, there are large inequalities of income and wealth in America. In purely economic terms, Europe is more egalitarian. But Americans are socially more equal than any other people, and this is unaffected by economic disparities. Alexis de Tocqueville noticed this egalitarianism a century and a half ago and it is, if anything, more prevalent today. For all his riches, Bill Gates could not approach the typical American and say, "Here's a $100 bill. I'll give it to you if you kiss my feet." Most likely, the person would tell Gates to go to hell! The American view is that the rich guy may have more money, but he isn't in any fundamental sense better than anyone else.

-- People live longer, fuller lives in America. Although protesters rail against the American version of technological capitalism at trade meetings around the world, in reality the American system has given citizens many more years of life, and the means to live more intensely and actively. In 1900, the life expectancy in America was around 50 years; today, it is more than 75 years. Advances in medicine and agriculture are mainly responsible for the change. This extension of the life span means more years to enjoy life, more free time to devote to a good cause, and more occasions to do things with the grandchildren. In many countries, people who are old seem to have nothing to do: they just wait to die. In America the old are incredibly vigorous, and people in their seventies pursue the pleasures of life, including remarriage and sexual gratification, with a zeal that I find unnerving.

-- In America the destiny of the young is not given to them, but created by them. Not long ago, I asked myself, "What would my life have been like if I had never come to the United States?" If I had remained in India, I would probably have lived my whole life within a five-mile radius of where I was born. I would undoubtedly have married a woman of my identical religious and socioeconomic background. I would almost certainly have become a medical doctor, or an engineer, or a computer programmer. I would have socialized entirely within my ethic community. I would have a whole set of opinions that could be predicted in advance; indeed, they would not be very different from what my father believed, or his father before him. In sum, my destiny would to a large degree have been given to me.

In America, I have seen my life take a radically different course. In college I became interested in literature and politics, and I resolved to make a career as a writer. I married a woman whose ancestry is English, French, Scotch-Irish, German and American Indian. In my twenties I found myself working as a policy analyst in the White House, even though I was not an American citizen. No other country, I am sure, would have permitted a foreigner to work in its inner citadel of government.

In most countries in the world, your fate and your identity are handed to you; in America, you determine them for yourself. America is a country where you get to write the script of your own life. Your life is like a blank sheet of paper, and you are the artist. This notion of being the architect of your own destiny is the incredibly powerful idea that is behind the worldwide appeal of America. Young people especially find irresistible the prospect of authoring the narrative of their own lives.

-- America has gone further than any other society in establishing equality of rights. There is nothing distinctively American about slavery or bigotry. Slavery has existed in virtually every culture, and xenophobia, prejudice and discrimination are worldwide phenomena. Western civilization is the only civilization to mount a principled campaign against slavery; no country expended more treasure and blood to get rid of slavery than the United States. While racism remains a problem, this country has made strenuous efforts to eradicate discrimination, even to the extent of enacting policies that give legal preference in university admissions, jobs, and government contracts to members of minority groups. Such policies remain controversial, but the point is that it is extremely unlikely that a racist society would have permitted such policies in the first place. And surely African Americans like Jesse Jackson are vastly better off living in America than they would be if they were to live in, say, Ethiopia or Somalia.

-- America has found a solution to the problem of religious and ethnic conflict that continues to divide and terrorize much of the world. Visitors to places like New York are amazed to see the way in which Serbs and Croatians, Sikhs and Hindus, Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants, Jews and Palestinians, all seem to work and live together in harmony. How is this possible when these same groups are spearing each other and burning each other's homes in so many places in the world?

The American answer is twofold. First, separate the spheres of religion and government so that no religion is given official preference but all are free to practice their faith as they wish. Second, do not extend rights to racial or ethnic groups but only to individuals; in this way, all are equal in the eyes of the law, opportunity is open to anyone who can take advantage of it, and everybody who embraces the American way of life can "become American."

Of course there are exceptions to these core principles, even in America. Racial preferences are one such exception, which explains why they are controversial. But in general, America is the only country in the world that extends full membership to outsiders. The typical American could come to India, live for 40 years, and take Indian citizenship. But he could not "become Indian." He wouldn't see himself that way, nor would most Indians see him that way. In America, by contrast, hundreds of millions have come from far-flung shores and over time they, or at least their children, have in a profound and full sense "become American."
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Obama's wife now proud

Just because you aren't for something doesn't mean you are against it... Don't try to sway this into a "Michelle is anti-American" argument.
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Obama's wife now proud

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Just because you aren't for something doesn't mean you are against it... Don't try to sway this into a "Michelle is anti-American" argument.
If you went through 26 years of your adult life with NOTHING to be proud of in your country, "anti" is a very reasonable conclusion...
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Obama's wife now proud

All is fair in war and politics,I don't like the "Spin Machine" but I can see how "any" candidate would pounce on her statement.
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: Obama's wife now proud

Here are some more things Mrs.Obama should be proud of, along with some other truths.
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Really proud of her country for the first time? Michelle Obama is 44 years old. She has been an adult since 1982. Can it really be there has not been a moment during that time when she felt proud of her country? Forget matters like the victory in the Cold War; how about only things that have made liberals proud — all the accomplishments of inclusion? How about the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1991? Or Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s elevation to the Supreme Court? Or Carol Moseley Braun’s election to the Senate in 1998? How about the merely humanitarian, like this country’s startling generosity to the victims of the tsunami? I’m sure commenters can think of hundreds more landmarks of this sort. Didn’t she even get a twinge from, say, the Olympics?

It suggests, first, that the pseudo-messianic nature of the Obama candidacy is very much a part of the way the Obamas themselves are feeling about it these days. If they don’t get a hold of themselves, the family vanity is going to swell up to the size of Phileas Fogg’s hot-air balloon and send the two of them soaring to heights of self-congratulatory solipsism that we’ve never seen before.

Second, it suggests the Obama campaign really does have its roots in New Class leftism, according to which patriotism is not only the last refuge of a scoundrel, but the first refuge as well — that America is not fundamentally good but flawed, but rather fundamentally flawed and only occasionally good. There’s something for John McCain to work with here.
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Old 02-20-2008, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: Obama's wife now proud

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
We should be very proud of Gorbechev. I know I am.



An international effort.



Another international effort.



An action that the Republicans were against. We weren't united behind that effort.



We cannot overcome the negatives that are associated with this war.


Which were freed by Gorbachev and is polices, not the policies of Reagan.



This is nothing new. Nothing unique.


Sure, there is always some basic pride, but she said "really proud". You have yet to present something that should make us really proud. The items that you have pointed out were a given, a continuation of the same traditions, or the actions of a foreign government.



I don't take it for granted, but there is no reason to feel really proud. Pride clouds judgment and prevents one from keeping their eyes on the horizon. Pride covers a multitude of sins.



The woman would have had the same opportunity in virtually every Western country. Why is this unique? We should be proud for our uniqueness.



Nothing yet...
For this I am proud of Obama's wife but I am more proud with Hilary Clinton.
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