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Education & Curriculum Discuss High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allow at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by foundit66 I did comment on the issue. THE ARTICLE (and the OP) raised comparisons on pro-gay <-> ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2017, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allo

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

I did comment on the issue.

THE ARTICLE (and the OP) raised comparisons on pro-gay <-> pro-life.
It's a b.s. comparison. Gay-Straight alliances are typically not really "political" while "pro-life" is resoundingly so.

And Repubs are being hypocritical in insisting on a POLITICAL club when they also whine about schools doing too much / not focusing enough on the three R's

You trying to make this about me would be "derailing".



I think the school officials should have the final say as they have a better understanding of the climate, etc.
I personally would think as long as there are explicit guidelines drawn up to ensure things don't get out of hand, I would be okay with it.



No.
Already addressed this.
And it's pathetic (but not unexpected) that you would simultaneously:
a) Claim I wasn't addressing the issue,
b) Ask that I comment on this issue, AND
c) Ignore the fact that I've already addressed this issue.

The complaint was "too controversial and political"
And as I pointed out, gay-straight alliances are typically not "political". It's about an anti-bullying campaign.
How do you consider abortion a political issue, and gay/straight something else? Abortion is more a religious issue, and gay issues political. I don't buy your argument that gay clubs are about bullying. Gay clubs seem to me to be about gay stuff.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2017, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allo

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Did I miss the part where you presented evidence that the gay straight alliance at the school was focused exclusively on preventing bullying? A charter with links perhaps. Or, is it just an assertion without any offer of proof?
"focused exclusively"
I never offered any proof of something I never claimed and because it's irrelevant. A standard you have created that I don't need to provide.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
No one disputes preventing bullying is worthwhile but it is implausible the gay straight alliance wouldn't express an opinion on "rights" issues like same sex marriage or crushing small businesses when they practice their religious convictions.
Expressing opinions is true of many different types of groups.
But again, completely irrelevant to the situation.

A pro-life club offers NOTHING in the way of benefiting curriculum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The claim that a group promoting the preservation of human life is stunning in its mendacity.
Are you missing something in that sentence?
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Last edited by foundit66; 06-10-2017 at 03:25 PM..
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Old 06-10-2017, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allo

Do you even know what gay-straight alliances are about in the first place?
Why they were formed?

Some people's positions are based out of ignorance and political convenience.
I'm betting you don't really know anything about gay-straight alliances. You don't care to learn.
But of course, you have an opinion on something you haven't even bothered to learn about.
And it's based on your political inclinations...

Am I right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
How do you consider abortion a political issue, and gay/straight something else?
Is abortion a political issue?
The truthful answer is yes.

Gay-straight alliances were not created because of political issues.
They were created to help address bullying in schools.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Abortion is more a religious issue...

Yeah.
That's why our "abortion" section is in the "religious" section.
It's also why religious groups focus on their religion and don't focus on putting it in governmental legislation.


Tell me claiming abortions is more of a religious issue at least made you feel seedy...


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
... and gay issues political. I don't buy your argument that gay clubs are about bullying. Gay clubs seem to me to be about gay stuff.
So, you've got an opinion based out of ignorance.
'mmkay.

Meanwhile, the real world goes spinning round and works despite your ignorance.
Gay-Straight Alliances help address bullying, regardless of what you want to comprehend.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/1751...-study-showing
According to a meta-analysis conducted by researchers from Vanderbuilt University and published in the Journal of Youth and Adolescence, students that attend high schools with Gay Straight Alliances are less likely to be bullied because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. In fact, the study found that all students, including heterosexual and cisgender teenagers, experienced less bullying across the board in schools with GSAs. The researchers looked at results from 15 separate studies, resulting in a sample size of roughly 63,000 participants — that is, one that's sizeable enough to reasonably draw fairly wide-reaching conclusions from. According to lead researchers Robert Marx and Heather Hensman Kettrey, the meta-analysis revealed that in schools where there is a GSA presence, students are 52 percent less likely to hear homophobic remarks, 36 percent less likely to fear for their personal safety, and 30 percent less likely to actually experience homophobic victimization.
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Last edited by foundit66; 06-11-2017 at 01:34 PM..
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Old 06-11-2017, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allo

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
"focused exclusively"
I never offered any proof of something I never claimed and because it's irrelevant. A standard you have created that I don't need to provide.



Expressing opinions is true of many different types of groups.
But again, completely irrelevant to the situation.

A pro-life club offers NOTHING in the way of benefiting curriculum.



Are you missing something in that sentence?
Yes, I missed a clause in the last sentence. I should have read.

The claim that a group promoting the preservation of human life adds nothing of benefit to the curriculum is stunning in its mendacity.

Thanks for pointing that out.

In this thread you have written extensively claiming the benefits of gay straight alliances because the reduce the incidence of bullying but never made mention of their advocacy of controversial positions on political issues. the supposed reduction in bullying is virtually the only benefit to gay straight alliances you mentioned. Of course mentioning the other so-called benefits of gay straight alliances would expose the controversies they create exposing the hypocrisy of banning right to life groups for being "controversial".

Selectively banning the right to life group because they express opinions unpopular with the school administration is not irrelevant, it is the essence of the thread topic. Many groups have opinions on issues but the right to life group is censored for theirs while others are allowed to promote theirs.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allo

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The claim that a group promoting the preservation of human life adds nothing of benefit to the curriculum is stunning in its mendacity.
I've already documented how it improves student life (and thus performance) by helping to address bullying.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
In this thread you have written extensively claiming the benefits of gay straight alliances because the reduce the incidence of bullying but never made mention of their advocacy of controversial positions on political issues. the supposed reduction in bullying is virtually the only benefit to gay straight alliances you mentioned. Of course mentioning the other so-called benefits of gay straight alliances would expose the controversies they create exposing the hypocrisy of banning right to life groups for being "controversial".
No.
By parallel, we have "Student Christian Athlete" groups in the high schools as well. If they have prayer in their group meetings, I wouldn't count that as a major aspect when it's not the fundamental purpose of the club.

In schools, some liberties are allowable as long as the club as a valid primary purpose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Selectively banning the right to life group because they express opinions unpopular with the school administration is not irrelevant, it is the essence of the thread topic.
ROFLMAO!
I remember the good ol' days when gay-straight alliances were fought against and people insisted that because they were controversial they shouldn't be allowed.
Ignoring the benefit to the students and school.

The "right to life" group is not banned because they are "expressing opinions unpopular".
I've already explained why they are being banned. Actually, the school officials explained their reasoning. But you haven't addressed it once...

You can make a choice to engage in adult conversation by dropping the strawman b.s., or you can continue in the tactic you are engaging in.
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Last edited by foundit66; 06-13-2017 at 09:15 PM..
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2017, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allo

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Do you really think you're proving anything right now with that inane non-sequitur?

So, the Christian group wouldn't be about ____ religion, but it WOULD be about ___ religion.
I never said anything about it being about ____ religion.
I'm saying that your specious argument would say it was not about RELIGION PERIOD.

And the fact that you threw in the second part saying it would be about ____ religion proves my point.


(sigh. And at this point you have completely forgotten why you even replied with that in the first place, other than wanting to argue against whatever thing you saw...)



You're repeating yourself while avoiding what I actually said.

So, you want to pretend that we need to consider these groups as "political" just because OTHER groups (e.g. glasses, obesity, etc) aren't put into existence?

That has got to be the DUMBEST argument you have thrown out there.
(okay. ONE OF the dumbest...)

HERE is the definition of political.
political: relating to the government or the public affairs of a country.
MEETING THAT DEFINITION is what would make the group "political".



WHO SAID THAT.
Obviously it's focused on anti-gay bullying. Nobody claimed otherwise.

As I've pointed out in the past, the reason being that anti-gay bullying is a larger problem. Ergo, to whine that we don't focus on smaller problems and instead focus on why it is a BIGGER problem is reasonable.

You disagree.
But that doesn't make it illogical.



No.
I really don't.
As I have pointed out, specific perpetrators repeatedly misrepresent.
You are one prime example. Mr. Wonder is another.

Recognizing the fact that I respond to habitual perpetrators in no way repudiates the fact that you are habitual perpetrators.

And I whole-heartedly expect you to hypocritically cower from challenges to your honesty. Nothing I can do will change that behavior from you.
What is it that makes the Pro-life club controversial? And a Pro-gay club not controversial? I really don't know. Does someone need to protest or write a letter about something before it is considered controversial?
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allo

With high rates of teen pregnancy in our country, I'd think this club would be welcomed. Information and support would be good things. I hope Parkland HS reconsiders.
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Man View Post
What is it that makes the Pro-life club controversial? And a Pro-gay club not controversial? I really don't know.
First off, "pro-gay club" is a misleading assessment. I don't know of any "pro-gay" school clubs.

I do know of Gay-Straight Alliance clubs which have a purpose of addressing anti-gay bullying. And ending anti-gay bullying should not be considered as "controversial".

Secondly, the point was that the pro-life club was "controversial and political". It's the fact that it's both that makes it questionable to the school district.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus
With high rates of teen pregnancy in our country, I'd think this club would be welcomed. Information and support would be good things. I hope Parkland HS reconsiders.
Why would a "pro-life" club reduce teen pregnancy?
There are "chastity" clubs in high school which try to encourage teens to avoid teenage sex. But those types of clubs often backfire...
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ledges/481059/
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2017, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allo

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
First off, "pro-gay club" is a misleading assessment. I don't know of any "pro-gay" school clubs.

I do know of Gay-Straight Alliance clubs which have a purpose of addressing anti-gay bullying. And ending anti-gay bullying should not be considered as "controversial".

Secondly, the point was that the pro-life club was "controversial and political". It's the fact that it's both that makes it questionable to the school district.



Why would a "pro-life" club reduce teen pregnancy?
There are "chastity" clubs in high school which try to encourage teens to avoid teenage sex. But those types of clubs often backfire...
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ledges/481059/
I've seen people who are able to throw BS around and make a reasonable argument, but you are the master of BS. Both clubs are equally political and controversial, but one is politically correct and must be given special rights, while the other is God Forbid, AAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH RELIGIOUS! That is the only difference.
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Old 06-28-2017, 11:56 PM
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Post Re: High school says pro-life club is too ‘controversial’ – but here’s what they allo

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
I've seen people who are able to throw BS around and make a reasonable argument, but you are the master of BS.
And you are one very angry person...



Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
Both clubs are equally political and controversial, but one is politically correct and must be given special rights, while the other is God Forbid, AAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH RELIGIOUS! That is the only difference.
Your assessment is wrong.
The gay-straight alliance is not political. It's about fighting anti-gay bullying.
And people who think that is "political" are disturbing...

And trying to label "pro-life" as "religious" is a menial effort to try to pretend anti-religious persecution when it isn't there. There may be religious motivation for some in the pro-life movement, but the underlying "pro-life" message is political. NOT religious.
It's an attempt to influence the policies of this nation to enforce a "pro-life" requirement.

If pro-lifers WERE to treat it as a religious ideal, that would be an improvement.
Typically with religion you have people happy to allow others to have and practice different religious ideals.


In fact, you really do not want people to start thinking as the pro-life / pro-choice issue as "religion".
That would mean RELIGIOUS PROTECTIONS FOR BOTH SIDES, and therefore the pro-choice side would get first amendment protections against pro-life over-reach.
Is that what you really want????
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