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Education & Curriculum Discuss Public schools vs home vs private at the General Discussion; I was a product of public schools of the 60's and early 70's, when kids in the US were still ...

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Old 10-03-2010, 10:37 PM
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Default Public schools vs home vs private

I was a product of public schools of the 60's and early 70's, when kids in the US were still being well-educated in comparison to kids in other countries. When I was raising children, the public schools seemed to do an *adequate* job, but I was starting to see some heavy influence of social-type workers in the schools, and teachers/principals who were reluctant to call parents when their child was being problematic in some way. This was in the late 80's nd 90's when children were still relatively well-mannered and there were few "problem children", and these were usually handled by parents with some school intervention. It seems that now, unruly kids are the norm, and respect for one another is not expected, nor demanded, either by school officials and teachers, or by parents. I think I heard a week or two ago, that the high school drop-out rate in public schools is hovering above 25%, and up towards 33% in some areas of the country.

I have a couple of friends in my age range who home-schooled their children in the 90's and early 2000's, and I have several younger friends who currently home-school their children. All have had great success, and their children normally go on to college, usually well-ahead of their same-age peers, and become well-adjusted working members of society. I don't know anyone personally who sends their children to private schools, but I know a couple of private school teachers who report much fewer behavioral problems than we see in public schools currently.

If I were now raising children, I think my tendency would be to send my children to private schools- probably religious ones, even if I had to give up other important (though not critical) things in my life for the time being. I don't have the inclination to teach children, and I don't think I would be good at it, either with my own, or with others' children. What I'm seeing with home-schooled children is that they seem to learn very well in an informal environment when they have a consistent and loving authority figure, and I'm wondering if some of the deterioration we see in the public schools is related to children not having any respect for adults in general- teachers in specific.

To me, it seems the most basic problem with education in America currently is that children can't control their impulses, and concede their own immediate desires to someone else. Am I mistaking what I am seeing?

Is anyone here currently dealing with their own children or grandchildren and the education they are getting, or is my viewpoint just limited by my own age and past experience?
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:11 AM
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Default Re: Public schools vs home vs private

Several years ago there was an article in the Detroit News about people sending their kids to private schools and it stated that over 40% of the teachers in the Detroit public school system sent their children to private schools because the system was so bad. I would expect it to be even more now.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: Public schools vs home vs private

Wow, 40%!
I can't figure out why dems are opposed to school vouchers. I would think they would prefer to spend money on education that is successful rather than maintaining the poor quality we seem to see nowadays.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: Public schools vs home vs private

I have found most home schooled kids to be better educated, more mature, better behaved, and contrary to the oft repeated cries to the contrary, far more socially developed that most public school kids I've met in recent years.

Further, I think it's a great flaw in a Republic to have the Government, at least the National Government running the schools. The temptation to use the schools to propagandize and condition students for social and political agendas is inescapable to the State.

To succumb to that temptation does not require that any single official or even generation of officials have and large ethical failing, merely that they have numerous tiny ones.

So I not only recommend private and home schooling for children, if I had my way, I would see the Constitution amended to bar any official role for the Federal Government in the education of minors. This would still allow them to make recommendations, and offer opinions, but forbid them from imposing their will.

Finally, abolishing the Department of Education, an abomination, would free up thousands of workers moderately qualified for careers in the Food Service and Institutional Housekeeping industries.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Public schools vs home vs private

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
I have found most home schooled kids to be better educated, more mature, better behaved, and contrary to the oft repeated cries to the contrary, far more socially developed that most public school kids I've met in recent years.
That is exactly what I have seen myself. Another trend of home-schooled kids appears to be an inclination toward entering humanitarian and service-oriented fields of employment (medical field primarily). A couple of months ago, I was in our local Home Depot, and one of the sons of a friend of mine was working there. He's 20 years old, has finished his BA, and is currently entering the full-time job market, just earning extra money until he finds a job that he's trained for. He's conversant, polite, and a delightful human to interact with. I realize my personal experience is anecdotal, but it remains very consistent.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Public schools vs home vs private

Public schooling in America is a total failure. So-called 'educational experts' have stitched together an ideology and set of doctrines based on a bizarre mixture of Marxism and Marvel Comics, and sold it to America as gospel truth. America, once again you've been suckered.
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Public schools vs home vs private

In the area where I live, we have a little locally published magazine that comes out quarterly, and is sent out to everyone in the county. I received the newest issue last week, and they have an article about a private Christian school that was opened in 1993, and the demand has been so high, that they have had to relocate one before, and they are currently building a new 60,000 square foot building to house the middle school-age kids. I'm glad to see that the demand for better education seems to be good around here.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: Public schools vs home vs private

There is a young nurse at the hospital where I work. She graduated nursing school at age 19 and obtained her first job as an RN. She is a product of Christian homeschooling, and is fantastic!
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Public schools vs home vs private

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There is a young nurse at the hospital where I work. She graduated nursing school at age 19 and obtained her first job as an RN. She is a product of Christian homeschooling, and is fantastic!
Wow, that's exactly what I'm talking about. One of my friends' daughters was home-schooled back in the late 90's, and completed her BA by age 19 or 20, spent a few years overseas doing some type of humanitarian aid work, then came back to the states, and went to get her masters, and is now a PA, working with group of GP's, and she's in her late 20's.
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Public schools vs home vs private

My son goes to a public school, what I'm seeing is that respect is being more demanded from teachers and the administration than it was when I attended the same elementary school 25 years ago. There is a stronger report between teachers and parents than when I attended and teachers are likely to contact parents with regard to violations of the school's mission statement, of which respect is one of the key elements.

I do know with regard to bullying and treating other students with disrespect, we got away with far more when I was in elementary school than today's kids do. At least here in my local school district.

So I guess it just depends on the school in particular, and not the system of public education in general.

People also have a tendency to romanticize the "good ol' days." In reality I don't think such a thing ever existed.

Is it possible that high school drop out rates have not increased as much recently as it is that we now keep better records than we did 60+ years ago?

Is it possible that in the 60s and 70s that children harbored equal disrespect for authority but were merely less likely to show it outwardly for fear of punishment, and if true, does that really constitute respect?

Is it possible that some people's views of the differences between how our youth acted when we were young vs. how we perceive today's youth (including my own view) is skewed by our own personal experiences, who we were friends with personally, and geographically - where we were born and raised?

These are the types of questions we need to ask ourselves when we try to compare today with the "good ol' days."

What did our grandparents think about the respect or disrespect shown by our parents generation? Or great-grandparents, etc.

I think that the generation gap simply causes most of us to look at the current 'next generation' and see them as being more disrespectful, less responsible and more poorly educated than we view ourselves as having been when we were the same age. It is easy for us to pick out the segment of the next generation we view as being brought up improperly according to our own standards and vilify them while ignoring others who by all standards are growing up well, and in doing so we incorrectly evaluate what is average for this next generation.

I was a punk kid that probably brought my generation's average down a notch, but I grew up and learned from my mistakes and even though I know better I'm still a bit leery of some of the "wiggers" and hoodlums walking around with their pants around their knees, listening to rap music disrespecting authority.

I'm sure I'll be thoroughly shocked and a bit disappointed in my own predictions, when, instead of spending their adult lives behind bars or on in welfare projects, a considerable portion of them outgrow their youthful indiscretions and become regular folks with mortgage payments and full-time jobs and kids and such.

I know that I find myself a bit shocked and out of sorts when I see some of the "kids" that I went to school with whom I considered to be more disrespectful and less well behaved than I was, kids that I fully expected would end up in Deer Lodge (as we say here in Montana, Deer Lodge being the city where our state prison is located), doing better than I am with respect to owning homes, cars, being married and settled down with good jobs, all cleaned up and part of civil society. I'm talking about going to job interviews and being interviewed by people that were bullies when I was in school, always getting in trouble with the law, with their parents, with school authorities for shoplifting, fighting, doing drugs, etc. Or seeing names of some of these punks on plaques on the doors of local restaurants and businesses under the words "General Manager:"

It is kind of humbling, aggravating and inspiring/hopeful at the same time.

Maybe I should have thrown caution to the wind and acted even more like a punk teenager than I already was
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