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Economics Discuss Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations? at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Mikeyy Hey I drive American cars myself. I think the new line of Chevys and Chryslers look ...

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Old 11-16-2009, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations?

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Hey I drive American cars myself. I think the new line of Chevys and Chryslers look good. Ford owns truck sales as far as I'm concerned.

It was the head of ford who said what the actual cost was per car.
I've been driving a new Impala...great car....
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations?

GM will spend it all and probbaly ask for more. They are like the homeless who keep asking for "spare change" and have no idea what they spent it on.
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations?

The cost per vehicle that unions cost manufacturers is about right however there is more to it than that as this article from last year shows.....

================================================== ========

Even as the Detroit automakers are asking Congress for a taxpayer bailout, the Detroit News reports that Ford Motor Co. is operating highly automated, highly integrated, and highly profitable auto plants — in Brazil. They employ state of the art technology and techniques to produce high-quality vehicles:

This state-of-the-art manufacturing complex in the northeastern Brazilian state of Bahia is not only the centerpiece of Ford’s Brazilian turnaround plan, it is also one of the most advanced automobile plants in the world. It is more automated than many of Ford’s U.S. factories, and leaner and more flexible than any other Ford facility. It can produce five different vehicle platforms at the same time and on the same line. …

At Camaçari, more than two dozen suppliers operate right inside the Ford complex, in many cases producing components alongside Ford’s main production line. Having those supplier operations on-site allows Ford to take the concept of just-in-time manufacturing to a whole new level. Inventories are kept to a bare minimum, or dispensed with entirely. Components such as dashboard assemblies flow directly into the main Ford assembly line at the precise point and time they are needed. …

The system also helps with quality. If there is a problem with a part, it is a simple matter for Ford engineers to trace it to its source and work with the supplier to correct it.

However, plants like this won’t be coming to the United States any time soon. Why? The United Auto Workers.

The UAW has been heavily criticized for its role in driving the Detroit automakers to the brink of bankruptcy, mostly for the $70 an hour that active workers earn in wages and benefits. Active and retiree health benefits alone add $1,200 to the cost of each vehicle GM produces.

But excessive wages and benefits are not the only way the UAW has hurt the once-mighty Big Three. The UAW has also saddled them with complex work rules that allow only certain workers to do certain tasks, and no one else. Ford’s master contract with the UAW is more than 2,200 pages long and weighs more than 22 pounds. Those work rules prevent the Big Three from opening any integrated and competitive plants like this in the United States any time soon:

Ford sources said it is the sort of plant the company wants in the United States, were it not for the United Auto Workers, which has historically opposed such extensive supplier integration on the factory floor.

Bailing out the Detroit automakers would only subsidize failure. Detroit knows how to make competitively priced cars efficiently. The United Auto Workers simply won’t let them.

UAW Won’t Let Detroit Make Competitively Priced Cars The Foundry
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations?

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
You haven't been here long so you probably don't know we have already been there. UAW doesn't hurt these companies at all. The average cost added to pay for all the UAW workers and the legacy payments equal less then $1500 a car. While the foriegn car companies are and have always been recieving subsidies from their governments. Blame Americans first is bad thinking. BTW Buick sales in China are doing well. Always blaming the union is a kneejerk reaction and answer for the right every time. Even though the numbers don't support your theory you will no doubt keep repeating it.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations?

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Good for you driving American cars. I own a chevy and a ford.

I'll bet you GM legacy and union related costs are higher than Ford's. Anyway, I'd like to subtract the UAW from the equation by killing it off. I have no doubt that eventually the surviving company will find a way to strangle the union. I'm not sure GM will survive but I think Ford will. Chrysler is a goner.
Without unions, what would be a fair way to negotiate for safety standards and fair wages? Serious question.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations?

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Without unions, what would be a fair way to negotiate for safety standards and fair wages? Serious question.
Free market...

How many companies or industries have safety standards and fair wages that do NOT have unions?...(answer - many)...
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations?

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Free market...

How many companies or industries have safety standards and fair wages that do NOT have unions?...(answer - many)...
None had any before there were unions, though.
And there will come a day when there are other issues in a company than they have right now. If they decide not to increase your wages after the next three national(housing, gas etc.) price increases:
Would you negotiate alone or form/join some other coalition?
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:15 PM
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Default Re: Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations?

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If they decide not to increase your wages after the next three national(housing, gas etc.) price increases:
Would you negotiate alone or form/join some other coalition?
Well, how in the hell can there be price increases when obama has said he will take care of us? And if there are increases it is because of the government mandates that were put on these company's because of cap and trade, so they are defacto tax increases.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations?

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Well, how in the hell can there be price increases when obama has said he will take care of us? And if there are increases it is because of the government mandates that were put on these company's because of cap and trade, so they are defacto tax increases.
So the answer is no I don't get my raise?
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Will GM Spend Taxpayer Bailout Money on Overseas Operations?

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Without unions, what would be a fair way to negotiate for safety standards and fair wages? Serious question.
Market clearing wage as informed by the efficiency wage. Ever heard of them?
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