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Old 10-22-2019, 03:23 AM
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Default Elizabeth warren is right. Time to admit medicare for all saves americans money, tax

ELIZABETH WARREN IS RIGHT. TIME TO ADMIT MEDICARE FOR ALL SAVES AMERICANS MONEY, TAX HIKE OR NOT

Last week's Democratic presidential debate was frustrating. Firstly, three hours came and went without a single question on the climate crisis, perhaps the defining issue of our time. Secondly, questionable facts were on full display, as moderators took it for granted that automation was the primary driver of manufacturing job losses, when the truth is more complicated. But perhaps most maddening of all was the built-in right-wing bias when the discussion turned to health care.

One by one, the moderate candidates on stage joined the moderators in grilling Senator Elizabeth Warren, demanding to know whether her support for Medicare for All meant she was willing to raise taxes on the middle class. Senator Warren's answer was simple: The overwhelming majority of families would save money under Medicare for All. She was making the point that the only reason people mind a tax increase is that it takes money out of their pockets.

~Medicare for All wouldn't do that, because in exchange for modest tax increases, the federal government would be covering the cost of all co-pays, deductibles, premiums and out-of-pocket health care expenses—which adds up, for the average non-elderly American family, to about 11 percent of their annual income. Think of it, Senator Warren is saying, as a check from the government made out in your name for everything you spend on health care, year after year. Sure, you might have to give a little bit of that back to pay for the program, but isn't that a trade most people would take?~

The answer, at least for me, is a resounding yes. Since being diagnosed with ALS in 2016, I and the people I love have had to spend countless hours on the phone arguing with the insurance company to fight for coverage of basic care, like a ventilator to help me breathe. I won some of those battles, but I lost bigger ones.






Unlike in Japan, where long-term care for ALS patients is covered by the country's national health care program, American insurance companies today flatly will not cover the cost of home care, which is something I need to survive. I'm lucky enough to have wealthy supporters and a platform that help me foot the $20,000 monthly bill I now pay for that care, but for most people, that's obviously not an option. It's why most ALS patients in the U.S. just go bankrupt or die early instead, while those in Japan live much longer.

This is deeply personal for me, because the last thing you want when you've been given a death sentence like ALS is to have to worry about how you're going to find tens of thousands of dollars per month that you don't have, just to continue surviving. I needed Medicare for All years ago, and it would have saved my family time, money and heartache.

The truth is this: The discussion on health care during last week's presidential debate was won by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. They love the status quo, which helps them rake in billions and billions in profits every year, while the rest of us go bankrupt trying to figure out how to pay for basic medical care when disaster strikes. They have worked for years to focus moderators and the media on the cost of the solution, rather than the scale of the problem. And by all accounts, the industries' spin doctors have succeeded.

When Senator Bernie Sanders said 500,000 people go bankrupt every year from medical bills, The Washington Post "fact-checked" him by arguing that medical debt was only part of the reason for every one of those bankruptcies. The fact of the matter is that the pharmaceutical and insurance industries have done remarkably well at shifting the debate on health care in this country so far to the right that an assumption that taxes are always bad seems to be taken for granted. As does a basic doubt over how bad the problems are with our current system, along with a gut-level skepticism over the cost of such a broad expansion of Medicare.

https://www.newsweek.com/ady-barkan-...ot-1466727?utm

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Old 10-22-2019, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: Elizabeth warren is right. Time to admit medicare for all saves americans money,

When someone is surviving a particular condition, it becomes vital to them in such a way that requiring other people pay for treatment or research becomes priority. ALS is a horrible disease. But no more horrible for the one suffering it then Parkinsons, or MS.

The idea that other people should pay for someone's healthcare, other than those truly unable to support themselves, is a presumptive position that says 'I will wander through life and enjoy it, but when I need help, others need to pay for it.'

How about planning for those eventual days, doing with less of the 'wants' in life, and making sure that things that can possibly happen are at least addressed.

The 'government' is not paying for anything, since it has no independent source of income. Every last dime it spends, is the taxpayer's money. So for all the contributions made through the years, the assistance that (hopefully) given to those who need it, is no longer sufficient. People now want more from other people's pockets...
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Old 10-22-2019, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: Elizabeth warren is right. Time to admit medicare for all saves americans money,

There is no evidence, which proves the assumption of the OP.
First, no government program, providing the same level of service, has ever proven to cost less that private sector.
With the possible exception of the Panama Canal, no US government program has ever cost what was projected. For instance, in the case of Medicare, prescription the cost projected for the first year was $60,000,000. It turned out to be twice that. And has increased every years since.

In the case of virtually every government program, it has proven to be that raising taxes was easier to do than cutting costs. But an all powerful government will do both. The dalliance of Obamacare certainly proves that axiom. Both the costs of care and insurance has risen. Yet the number of people under insured, and underserved remains the same.

We are setting ourselves up to be feudalist, enslaved by a government originally designed to be limited in scope and power providing ONLY for the general welfare. The American voter has ignored the truth in favor of freebies and a belief in gossamer promises to our narcissistic self serving nature. Believing in the utopic promises of people who are never then held accountable for the failure of their deceits. We continue to vote ourselves into feudalism where the government is the provider of all., at the expense of our liberty.

If this is the time for any admission, then we must recognize the enemy, and it is us.

The promises of Elizabeth Warren do not meet the smell test, much less a fiscal test. Without a huge expansion of government into our lives, and our wallets, it simply will not work. And the medical services to which we have become accustomed, will suffer. As will the American people.

The American Health care system is exceptional in the world. It is available to all who work to access it. And despite propaganda to the contrary, accessible to all. It is the result of our nation's prosperity. A perfect example of the axiom, a rising economy floats all boats. An overburdened economy will shrink to failure. Warren's promise, if fulfilled, will sink them.
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Old 10-22-2019, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Elizabeth warren is right. Time to admit medicare for all saves americans money,

The countries with universal health care have much higher taxes than the US. Anyone who believes that covering everyone in our very large nation would be cheaper is stupid. That is simply impossible.
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Old 10-22-2019, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Elizabeth warren is right. Time to admit medicare for all saves americans money,

To correct the title, Elizabeth Warren is an idiot and an opportunist. And anyone dumb enough to believe her moronic proposals, are most likely naive enough to fall for almost any left wing pipe dream.
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Old 10-22-2019, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Elizabeth warren is right. Time to admit medicare for all saves americans money,

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Old 10-22-2019, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: Elizabeth warren is right. Time to admit medicare for all saves americans money,

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
ELIZABETH WARREN IS RIGHT. TIME TO ADMIT MEDICARE FOR ALL SAVES AMERICANS MONEY, TAX HIKE OR NOT

Last week's Democratic presidential debate was frustrating. Firstly, three hours came and went without a single question on the climate crisis, perhaps the defining issue of our time. Secondly, questionable facts were on full display, as moderators took it for granted that automation was the primary driver of manufacturing job losses, when the truth is more complicated. But perhaps most maddening of all was the built-in right-wing bias when the discussion turned to health care.

One by one, the moderate candidates on stage joined the moderators in grilling Senator Elizabeth Warren, demanding to know whether her support for Medicare for All meant she was willing to raise taxes on the middle class. Senator Warren's answer was simple: The overwhelming majority of families would save money under Medicare for All. She was making the point that the only reason people mind a tax increase is that it takes money out of their pockets.

~Medicare for All wouldn't do that, because in exchange for modest tax increases, the federal government would be covering the cost of all co-pays, deductibles, premiums and out-of-pocket health care expenses—which adds up, for the average non-elderly American family, to about 11 percent of their annual income. Think of it, Senator Warren is saying, as a check from the government made out in your name for everything you spend on health care, year after year. Sure, you might have to give a little bit of that back to pay for the program, but isn't that a trade most people would take?~

The answer, at least for me, is a resounding yes. Since being diagnosed with ALS in 2016, I and the people I love have had to spend countless hours on the phone arguing with the insurance company to fight for coverage of basic care, like a ventilator to help me breathe. I won some of those battles, but I lost bigger ones.






Unlike in Japan, where long-term care for ALS patients is covered by the country's national health care program, American insurance companies today flatly will not cover the cost of home care, which is something I need to survive. I'm lucky enough to have wealthy supporters and a platform that help me foot the $20,000 monthly bill I now pay for that care, but for most people, that's obviously not an option. It's why most ALS patients in the U.S. just go bankrupt or die early instead, while those in Japan live much longer.

This is deeply personal for me, because the last thing you want when you've been given a death sentence like ALS is to have to worry about how you're going to find tens of thousands of dollars per month that you don't have, just to continue surviving. I needed Medicare for All years ago, and it would have saved my family time, money and heartache.

The truth is this: The discussion on health care during last week's presidential debate was won by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. They love the status quo, which helps them rake in billions and billions in profits every year, while the rest of us go bankrupt trying to figure out how to pay for basic medical care when disaster strikes. They have worked for years to focus moderators and the media on the cost of the solution, rather than the scale of the problem. And by all accounts, the industries' spin doctors have succeeded.

When Senator Bernie Sanders said 500,000 people go bankrupt every year from medical bills, The Washington Post "fact-checked" him by arguing that medical debt was only part of the reason for every one of those bankruptcies. The fact of the matter is that the pharmaceutical and insurance industries have done remarkably well at shifting the debate on health care in this country so far to the right that an assumption that taxes are always bad seems to be taken for granted. As does a basic doubt over how bad the problems are with our current system, along with a gut-level skepticism over the cost of such a broad expansion of Medicare.

https://www.newsweek.com/ady-barkan-...ot-1466727?utm

"It's the economy, stupid; our household economy, stupid."
Most people do not have ALS (a.k.a. "Lou Gehrig's Disease")--or any other catastrophic disease--so the author's point is not applicable to most people.

Additionally, the author appears to think that we should look only at the results--rather than the principle behind the results.

And those who are essentially unprincipled may see nothing wrong with this...
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Old 10-22-2019, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Elizabeth warren is right. Time to admit medicare for all saves americans money,

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Most people do not have ALS (a.k.a. "Lou Gehrig's Disease")--or any other catastrophic disease--so the author's point is not applicable to most people.

Additionally, the author appears to think that we should look only at the results--rather than the principle behind the results.

And those who are essentially unprincipled may see nothing wrong with this...
You get a
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Elizabeth warren is right. Time to admit medicare for all saves americans money,

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
There is no evidence, which proves the assumption of the OP.
First, no government program, providing the same level of service, has ever proven to cost less that private sector.

I agree....

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Old 10-23-2019, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Elizabeth warren is right. Time to admit medicare for all saves americans money,

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
There is no evidence, which proves the assumption of the OP.
First, no government program, providing the same level of service, has ever proven to cost less that private sector.
...
except...er...Medicare!
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