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Economics Discuss Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by GetAClue Exactly. Simply raising the FMW by decree does nothing but increase inflation as it devalues the ...

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Old 07-12-2019, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Exactly. Simply raising the FMW by decree does nothing but increase inflation as it devalues the dollar relative to goods and services. If something that cost $8 today costs $15 tomorrow without any added benefits, that just means that your dollar bought a little more than 1/2 today what it bought yesterday. It didn't increase the value of the commodity only cheapened the money used to purchase it.

But to those on the left that are not capable of logical thought, this is a panacea as it only takes a few votes to accomplish instead of actual hard work and perseverance. And the politicians peddling this crap understand that this is bad for the economy but that their constituents will buy into it and vote for them. It really is sickening that our politicians would sell out the country for a vote, but that is the way it is these days.
Here's a curious coincidence.

I have several people on staff that can only work 30 hours a week ( average) or they lose their disability status. Disability means they cannot work or cannot work 40 hours a week. With a small monthly stipend, they also receive Medicaid benefits. BTW This is all from SS funding. You remember SS right? Always about to go broke.

Isn't it curious that Obamacare included an exception for employers regarding provision of Health care benefits at,,;wait for it,,,;30 hours? Seems to me this coincidence worked just fine for the so-called evil Wal-Mart stores and other such industries. I'm betting Sam Walton smile from his grave over that trick.

However, it doesn't work well for manufacturing. Is it no wonder manufacturing suffered under the same President who declared it "Dead" during his administration?

The politicians bought in and, like it or not, sold the concept to the masses.

But what happens now when we are forced, by the same government, to pay more per hour for the same labor? Will these people lose their benefits? hHrdly. They will go to fewer hours. Making them less valuable as a resource of labor. And more of a burden on the taxpayers.

There are millions of Americans who fall into this category. Pulling none of those involved and effected out of poverty.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Here's a curious coincidence.

I have several people on staff that can only work 30 hours a week ( average) or they lose their disability status. Disability means they cannot work or cannot work 40 hours a week. With a small monthly stipend, they also receive Medicaid benefits. BTW This is all from SS funding. You remember SS right? Always about to go broke.

Isn't it curious that Obamacare included an exception for employers regarding provision of Health care benefits at,,;wait for it,,,;30 hours? Seems to me this coincidence worked just fine for the so-called evil Wal-Mart stores and other such industries. I'm betting Sam Walton smile from his grave over that trick.

However, it doesn't work well for manufacturing. Is it no wonder manufacturing suffered under the same President who declared it "Dead" during his administration?

The politicians bought in and, like it or not, sold the concept to the masses.

But what happens now when we are forced, by the same government, to pay more per hour for the same labor? Will these people lose their benefits? hHrdly. They will go to fewer hours. Making them less valuable as a resource of labor. And more of a burden on the taxpayers.

There are millions of Americans who fall into this category. Pulling none of those involved and effected out of poverty.
Great points. I was not aware of the hour restrictions for those on disability. But I really appreciate how you have tied those restrictions to the O'Care provisions. I had not even thought of that.

This is a message that needs to get out the masses to understand how these policies from Obama have affected this countries economy. If more people understood this, a great number of them would cease voting for these leftist politicians.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:49 AM
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Default Re: Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
That makes the assumption that inflation would not be impacted and that the cost of goods and services remains static. However, when you begin to inflate wages on the low side, it raises ALL wages. That in itself them artificially increases production costs across the board which leads to a higher cost for goods and services. When it is all said in done, all that is accomplished is a spike in inflation with those on the lower end of the wage scale ultimately paying the price.
This is a false statement. Raising the minimum wage will increase wages for all those earning less than the $15/hr and for some of those already earning more than $15/hr but when you reach a certain point, like those already earning over $20/hr, it merely compresses the wage spread. It would have zero effect on those with good wages already because they're not effected at all by what the minimum wage is.

We can also note that while it can affect the rate of inflation it only does so for the implementation years. Usually an increase of this amount is phased in over several years (probably 5 years) to allow employers to adjust to the increased costs over time.

The inflation rate never comes close to the financial benefits for those that receive the wage increase. Employee compensation is only a minor percentage of the cost of production (for both goods and services). Typically, for the average enterprise, the cost of employee compensation ranges between 20% and 30% of gross sales. If all of the increased costs for compensation are covered by an increase in pricing is only equal to 25% of cost in dollars compared to the increase in compensation. If, for example, the wage increase averaged $4/hr per worker (some receiving $8/hr and some receiving no increase at all) the increase in price for the goods/services would only be $1.

Of course no competent business manager is going to use price increases to cover all of the costs of the increase in employee compensation. There are many other ways to cover the costs without any increase in the price of the goods/services being sold.

Improving customer service, for example, can increase business which increases gross sales. Increasing gross sales lowers the percentage costs for labor compensation. So if the compensation was equal to 25% of gross sales an increase in gross sales so that the increased compensation costs are 25% of gross sales there's no need to raise prices. It's a balance of percentages in the business plan.

We can also note that the CBO doesn't claim that the increased minimum wage will result in fewer manhours being worked (i.e. fewer jobs or a reduction in the numbers of hours worked).

Quote:
CBO says that if the federal minimum wage were raised to $15 an hour, there is a 66% chance that between none and 3.7 million people could lose their jobs.
The number of jobs potentially lost is a direct reflection of the competency of the management. A highly competent manager will not reduce hours or the number of employees at all. There are too many alternatives that cover the increased costs for compensation that exclude both price increases and cutting hours/jobs. Those hours/jobs are there because the company needs the labor to generate it's income. To cut jobs/hours is to cut the gross sales of the business.

Poor management will cut hours/jobs and raise prices but that's poor management and not good management of the enterprise.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

The problem is that $15/hr is no longer enough of a raise in the minimum wage.

The Fight for 15 (a $15/hr minimum wage) began in 2013 and it would have been adequate at that time but six years have passed since then. For six years the minimum wage lost value and we could anticipate it would, at a minimum, take another year to raise the minimum wage to $15/hr (but McConnell will never let the Senate even consider it). Then there has to be a phase in period to allow employers to adjust that would probably be five more years before the $15/hr is actually a reality. That's twelve years of declining purchasing power since 2013 when $15/hr could have worked.

If we're going to start a movement to increase the federal minimum wage now then the target should be $20/hr (or more) to allow passage and phased implementation.
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

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it merely compresses the wage spread. It would have zero effect on those with good wages already because they're not effected at all by what the minimum wage is.
Tell that to the middle manager or IT tech at the chain store headquarters whose raise is 20% of what it would've been had the company NOT been forced to comply with dictatorial regulations...
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

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Tell that to the middle manager or IT tech at the chain store headquarters whose raise is 20% of what it would've been had the company NOT been forced to comply with dictatorial regulations...
In most cases his raise would be proportional to the lower level staff. So at the end of the cycle of raises and inflation "nothing" will have changed but the amount being sent to the government because of bracketed ax rates..
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The problem is that $15/hr is no longer enough of a raise in the minimum wage.

The Fight for 15 (a $15/hr minimum wage) began in 2013 and it would have been adequate at that time but six years have passed since then. For six years the minimum wage lost value and we could anticipate it would, at a minimum, take another year to raise the minimum wage to $15/hr (but McConnell will never let the Senate even consider it). Then there has to be a phase in period to allow employers to adjust that would probably be five more years before the $15/hr is actually a reality. That's twelve years of declining purchasing power since 2013 when $15/hr could have worked.

If we're going to start a movement to increase the federal minimum wage now then the target should be $20/hr (or more) to allow passage and phased implementation.


JEEZ it never end's with you guys.

$20 bucks an hour, why not make it $30. Hell, make it $40. At the end of the cycle of raises and inflations, everyone will be in the same place.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
True. But this method of lifting all out of poverty will put our nation in "last" place
Yes, I put that "everyone is a winner" thing to poke at the snowflakes in some sports whining that they lost to the other team, et cetera, so awards are issued to everybody, so therefore nobody is the winner.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Tell that to the middle manager or IT tech at the chain store headquarters whose raise is 20% of what it would've been had the company NOT been forced to comply with dictatorial regulations...
A typical "Trump" type response where a number (20%) is pulled out of the rectal cavity and then a situation is fabricated that doesn't exist in the real world when to comes to business management.

Employee compensation is an expenditure just like every other expenditures of the enterprise. It is accounted for as a percentage of gross sales. When there's an increase in the expenditure the business plan is revised to retain that percentage of gross sales and there are numerous ways to achieve this.

Increases in compensation for all employees would be made after the adjustments to the business plan to accommodate the increased compensation costs. The funding for increased compensation is also derived from a revision to the business plan that is separate from any revisions to accommodate increased costs. Normally the increased compensation is based upon increased productivity from the workers but, as history has shown since 1973, the employees only receive a small portion of the increased revenue generated by increased productivity.

A middle manager, with a median income of about $110,000/yr according to Labor Department statistics, is going to make out like a bandit if the increased compensation is a percentage increase. At $110,000 if it's a 4% increase they will receive a $4,400/yr raise. The fulltime worker earning $15/hr is going to receive $1,248/yr raise (based upon a 2080 man-hour work year).

I don't see the mid-level manager complaining at all.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:28 PM
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Default Re: Business $15 minimum wage would boost pay for 17 million workers, says CBO

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
JEEZ it never end's with you guys.

$20 bucks an hour, why not make it $30. Hell, make it $40. At the end of the cycle of raises and inflations, everyone will be in the same place.
The increase in inflation, if it occurs at all, is only a small percentage of the increase in compensation to the workers at the bottom of the economic ladder. While not wanting to create unnecessary inflation the inflationary consequences are completely overblown by opponents to an increase in the minimum wage.

Always remember that an increase in the minimum wage results in reduced welfare benefits. Ideally the minimum wage is enough to prevent any welfare benefits being required by fulltime working households. Working poverty is really inexcusable.

So take a position. Don't increase the minimum wage and increase welfare benefits as inflation drives up the cost of living or increase the minimum wage enough to eliminate welfare benefits for working households but not more than is necessary.

Welfare v Wages

That's the choice.
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