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Economics Discuss A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment in m at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by jamesrage I hate to play devils advocate. But if only 3% of workers are minimum wage as ...

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Old 06-21-2018, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
I hate to play devils advocate. But if only 3% of workers are minimum wage as many minimum wage opponents like to claim then I find it hard to believe that increasing minimum wage would have any significant impact on goods and services overall.
When you raise the minimum wage, you also raise all wages above that in any particular business. Remember, it a lot of cases the minimum wage is an entry level job. There are jobs above that pay grade that are paid more as an incentive to take on more responsibility or to reward an increase is skill. When you raise the minimum, you have to raise those wages also to continue the incentive. Therefore, raising the minimum affects ALL wages at a particular company.
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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When you raise the minimum wage, you also raise all wages above that in any particular business. Remember, it a lot of cases the minimum wage is an entry level job. There are jobs above that pay grade that are paid more as an incentive to take on more responsibility or to reward an increase is skill. When you raise the minimum, you have to raise those wages also to continue the incentive. Therefore, raising the minimum affects ALL wages at a particular company.
The effects are not limited to an individual company. For instance, the $15 per hour minimum wage passed by the city of Seattle impacted all businesses in the city with minimum wage or low wage workers.

Inflating minimum wage also stunts job creation because it makes it more expensive to hire inexperienced workers.

Ironically in Seattle the $15 per hour minimum wage by law prompted employees to request reductions in work hours so as to maintain eligibility for welfare benefits such as food stamps. The exact opposite of what the policy was intended to do.
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Old 06-22-2018, 10:12 AM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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The effects are not limited to an individual company. For instance, the $15 per hour minimum wage passed by the city of Seattle impacted all businesses in the city with minimum wage or low wage workers.

Inflating minimum wage also stunts job creation because it makes it more expensive to hire inexperienced workers.

Ironically in Seattle the $15 per hour minimum wage by law prompted employees to request reductions in work hours so as to maintain eligibility for welfare benefits such as food stamps. The exact opposite of what the policy was intended to do.
So, in effect raising the minimum wage has little benefit to the worker/consumer. It hampers the local economy by restricting access to entry level work, makes businesses less competitive locally, nationally and internationally. Amplifies inflation which in turn devalues the earned dollars of everyone.

So, should not the question be asked,,,;" whom does it benefit?"
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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So, in effect raising the minimum wage has little benefit to the worker/consumer. It hampers the local economy by restricting access to entry level work, makes businesses less competitive locally, nationally and internationally. Amplifies inflation which in turn devalues the earned dollars of everyone.

So, should not the question be asked,,,;" whom does it benefit?"
Taxing authorities. More wages, more taxes, and they don't have to do anything more for it.
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Old 06-22-2018, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
When you raise the minimum wage, you also raise all wages above that in any particular business. Remember, it a lot of cases the minimum wage is an entry level job. There are jobs above that pay grade that are paid more as an incentive to take on more responsibility or to reward an increase is skill. When you raise the minimum, you have to raise those wages also to continue the incentive. Therefore, raising the minimum affects ALL wages at a particular company.
Raising the wage of a burger flipper is not going to cause the wages of construction workers to go up or any one else who makes significantly more money than a minimum wage worker. Sure if they raise the wage of a burger flipper to that of a construction then sure the construction worker's wages might increase assuming that company isn't hiring illegals or exploiting the worker visa system to so that they can suppress wages. However a lot of times a minimum wage increase is usually only a dollar or so.They aren't going to raise the minimum wage by 10 or 15 dollars.
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Old 06-22-2018, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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Raising the wage of a burger flipper is not going to cause the wages of construction workers to go up or any one else who makes significantly more money than a minimum wage worker. Sure if they raise the wage of a burger flipper to that of a construction then sure the construction worker's wages might increase assuming that company isn't hiring illegals or exploiting the worker visa system to so that they can suppress wages. However a lot of times a minimum wage increase is usually only a dollar or so.They aren't going to raise the minimum wage by 10 or 15 dollars.
You raise the wage of 'a' burger flipper, then the burger flippers who have gotten merit raises, will need to be increased, or the work they did to earn that raise has been devalued.

The raise the burger flipper gets, increases the cost of product, which is offset by an increase in the price of the burger. The construction worker now cannot afford as many burgers, so the construction worker's buying power has decreased, and needs a raise to stay ahead of the inflation that is happening because everybody's wages are going up, and prices are going up.

Artificial increases in wages without additional production cause inflation, which decreases everybody's buying power, and the only the only 'winners' are, as I stated above, are the taxing authority who gets more revenue without having to provide anything additional.

As I've said before, FMW was never intended to be a living wage. If people remain at MW past a few months, then they aren't bothering to do anything to increase their actual value in the employment marketplace.
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Old 06-22-2018, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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So, in effect raising the minimum wage has little benefit to the worker/consumer. It hampers the local economy by restricting access to entry level work, makes businesses less competitive locally, nationally and internationally. Amplifies inflation which in turn devalues the earned dollars of everyone.

So, should not the question be asked,,,;" whom does it benefit?"
Politicians!
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Old 06-22-2018, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
Raising the wage of a burger flipper is not going to cause the wages of construction workers to go up or any one else who makes significantly more money than a minimum wage worker. Sure if they raise the wage of a burger flipper to that of a construction then sure the construction worker's wages might increase assuming that company isn't hiring illegals or exploiting the worker visa system to so that they can suppress wages. However a lot of times a minimum wage increase is usually only a dollar or so.They aren't going to raise the minimum wage by 10 or 15 dollars.
The company I work for has plants on 3 continents. They have to deal with wage differences in those plants to stay competitive.

The plant that I am closest to has a entry wage of around $10/hr. Those entry level workers will most likely be on a swing shift meaning that every so many weeks, they change from 1st shift, to 2nd, to 3rd and then back to 1st shift. It is a challenging lifestyle. Along with that, the work is somewhat demanding, requiring them to be somewhat fit physically.

While working, they are also required to learn the jobs that are above them in the pay scale with the anticipation that they may be able to do that job in the future. With the upper level job, comes an increase in pay. Let's say about $1/hr raise. And there are a few levels that they can increase up to about $25/hr for some of the higher paying hourly wages in the plant.

If the local burger flipper is going to be paid the same as the entry level worker, what is his incentive to go work in the plant? (I can tell you that the wage at the plant is what they have to pay to get those people). So, when the local burger flipper gets a raise via min wage, everyone in our plant gets a raise to keep competitive in the market we are in. And that is a fact. When Ohio last raised the state min wage, the local plant increased the wages of everyone in the plant on the day it was implemented.

The other thing that I distinctly remember, was that the day the min wage increased in Ohio, EVERY fast foot establishment in town raised the prices of nearly everything on their menu.

I know this is a little simplified, but you get the point. Min wage has an impact in the market regardless of whether or not the company in question employs workers at that pay rate.
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Old 06-22-2018, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
Raising the wage of a burger flipper is not going to cause the wages of construction workers to go up or any one else who makes significantly more money than a minimum wage worker. Sure if they raise the wage of a burger flipper to that of a construction then sure the construction worker's wages might increase assuming that company isn't hiring illegals or exploiting the worker visa system to so that they can suppress wages. However a lot of times a minimum wage increase is usually only a dollar or so.They aren't going to raise the minimum wage by 10 or 15 dollars.
I don't understand how you don't understand.

Aside from actual examples posted in this thread and elsewhere, there is the logical connection of a unified economy suffering when any one component must deal with and pass on higher cost. mandated higher costs have no check and balance forces to stimulate solutions. They simply stipulate a new unavoidable pressure point. You cannot cherry pick one component and ignore another by suggesting they aren't related just because it makes your math seem to work.

Intentional ignorance is a dangerous disease. You might look into it.
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Old 06-22-2018, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
The company I work for has plants on 3 continents. They have to deal with wage differences in those plants to stay competitive.

The plant that I am closest to has a entry wage of around $10/hr. Those entry level workers will most likely be on a swing shift meaning that every so many weeks, they change from 1st shift, to 2nd, to 3rd and then back to 1st shift. It is a challenging lifestyle. Along with that, the work is somewhat demanding, requiring them to be somewhat fit physically.

While working, they are also required to learn the jobs that are above them in the pay scale with the anticipation that they may be able to do that job in the future. With the upper level job, comes an increase in pay. Let's say about $1/hr raise. And there are a few levels that they can increase up to about $25/hr for some of the higher paying hourly wages in the plant.

If the local burger flipper is going to be paid the same as the entry level worker, what is his incentive to go work in the plant? (I can tell you that the wage at the plant is what they have to pay to get those people). So, when the local burger flipper gets a raise via min wage, everyone in our plant gets a raise to keep competitive in the market we are in. And that is a fact. When Ohio last raised the state min wage, the local plant increased the wages of everyone in the plant on the day it was implemented.

The other thing that I distinctly remember, was that the day the min wage increased in Ohio, EVERY fast foot establishment in town raised the prices of nearly everything on their menu.

I know this is a little simplified, but you get the point. Min wage has an impact in the market regardless of whether or not the company in question employs workers at that pay rate.
What you say is true. At least in the real world.

During most of Obama's presidency St. Charles county Mo maintained a relatively low unemployment rate. So, while neighboring counties, and most of the nation, had plenty of unskilled labor willing to take minimum wages, hiring was easy. But not here in St Charles County MO. where unemployment hovered around 3%. We have been at $8.50 to $9.00 an hour for the last eight years.
Once the Trump Boom happened it has gone higher. Today entry level burger flippers get $10.00 and hour.
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