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Economics Discuss A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment in m at the Political Forums; Can't afford a ONE bedroom apartment? Simple get a studio apartment. Also a minimum wage should be a temporary wage. ...

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Old 06-17-2018, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

Can't afford a ONE bedroom apartment? Simple get a studio apartment.
Also a minimum wage should be a temporary wage. Even without going to learn any special skills, one should be promoted from minimum wage after awhile.
If one doesn't get some kind of raise it's time to move on.

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Old 06-18-2018, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

I have a suggestion. Let's remove the minimum wage as it is nothing but an artificial driver of inflation. It is a law that as Frank said, was meant to prevent the exploitation of child labor which is covered by other laws now.

Let the market set wages. If a company has a task to do that they feel is worth hiring someone for $5 an hour, let them offer it. If someone is willing to work for that wage, why should the government intrude to say you can't? Either someone accepts that wage or the company decides to either not fill it or raise the starting rate. Either way, it is a decision between the employer and employee.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:38 AM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
I have a suggestion. Let's remove the minimum wage as it is nothing but an artificial driver of inflation. It is a law that as Frank said, was meant to prevent the exploitation of child labor which is covered by other laws now.

Let the market set wages. If a company has a task to do that they feel is worth hiring someone for $5 an hour, let them offer it. If someone is willing to work for that wage, why should the government intrude to say you can't? Either someone accepts that wage or the company decides to either not fill it or raise the starting rate. Either way, it is a decision between the employer and employee.
Some would suggest, and I'm one of them, that setting a minimum wage sets a low bar as to what is acceptable. I have never paid minimum wage although our policy of hiring special needs people allows us to pay well below minimum wage. We pay what the job is worth and raise pay to justify the individual efforts made by those we hire.

Some of our people are doing the same level of work as the day they came in. After years of employment, they still make the base rate. Those who excel see higher wages and bonuses for the efforts to improve their skill sets. We believe higher wages should be based on that metric of "value", not some abstract idea of reward for longevity or a Government mandate.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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...

Some of our people are doing the same level of work as the day they came in. After years of employment, they still make the base rate. Those who excel see higher wages and bonuses for the efforts to improve their skill sets. We believe higher wages should be based on that metric of "value", not some abstract idea of reward for longevity or a Government mandate.
I can buy that up to a point.
here's why i have some questions about that.

If any of us bought a Gadget that, after we got the settings right, we knew would last 15 years and that would rarely have problem or break down. Most of us would be willing to pay more for that than some newer Gadget that you weren't sure of and would likely have to replace and reset every year.

The value of reliably is real, and is worth paying for.
Just depends on how much folks value stability verse cheap fixes.

a reliable employee is a great assets and it seems to me often worth more money. and unlike a gadet that's rated UPFRONT with 15 20 30 year working life. so you can pay UP front. an employees value only seen over time so the compensation comes later.


Taking another tack,
if were' just talking about "fairness" and what people are supposedly owed for their work. when it come right down to it. every company should be profit sharing with every employee. THEY are doing the work as well as owners.
why shouldn't they share in profits ...and losses. with their salaries rising as the profits rise?
Why is a "job" a fixed salary?
Is Bill Gates doing 1Billion% more work now than when he started the company? is his janitor doing less?

if the hands and heads aren't there to make it happen then it doesn't happen at all.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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I can buy that up to a point.
here's why i have some questions about that.

If any of us bought a Gadget that, after we got the settings right, we knew would last 15 years and that would rarely have problem or break down. Most of us would be willing to pay more for that than some newer Gadget that you weren't sure of and would likely have to replace and reset every year.

The value of reliably is real, and is worth paying for.
Just depends on how much folks value stability verse cheap fixes.

a reliable employee is a great assets and it seems to me often worth more money. and unlike a gadet that's rated UPFRONT with 15 20 30 year working life. so you can pay UP front. an employees value only seen over time so the compensation comes later.


Taking another tack,
if were' just talking about "fairness" and what people are supposedly owed for their work. when it come right down to it. every company should be profit sharing with every employee. THEY are doing the work as well as owners.
why shouldn't they share in profits ...and losses. with their salaries rising as the profits rise?
Why is a "job" a fixed salary?
Is Bill Gates doing 1Billion% more work now than when he started the company? is his janitor doing less?

if the hands and heads aren't there to make it happen then it doesn't happen at all.
I have no idea how to process that logic.

Fairness? Sharing profits? That comes with an accountability that no employee is required by honor or law to accept. Those of us who risk capital based on our ability to organize productive work to create items or services of value do.

Bill gates is worth a lot because of what he built, not because his bathrooms ae clean. Perhaps if the janitor would have studied a bit harder, he too could create an empire. This comes from a fella, born poor and on the wrong side of town, who wasn't too proud to pull a hoe through a tomato field as he studied at university. I'm now worth a damn bit more than the man standing next to one of my packaging machine designs, hand placing lotion samples. Come this Friday,,,; He doesn't have to meet the payroll.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

Instead of worrying about an arbitrary notion of "fairness", businesses more often make decisions based upon "value". If the value of a job is worth x amount to the business, they are not going to readily pay x percent plus y to get it done. Fairness rarely enters the conversation as it is generally hard to quantify.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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Instead of worrying about an arbitrary notion of "fairness", businesses more often make decisions based upon "value". If the value of a job is worth x amount to the business, they are not going to readily pay x percent plus y to get it done. Fairness rarely enters the conversation as it is generally hard to quantify.
True. But it does make a compelling headline.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
I have no idea how to process that logic.
that's part of the problem i guess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Fairness? Sharing profits? That comes with an accountability that no employee is required by honor or law to accept. Those of us who risk capital based on our ability to organize productive work to create items or services of value do.
every one here agrees that the boss should get MORE. that's not a question.
and risking the Capital is an investment is an investment that should be compensated accordingly as well.
but we both know that if your a corporation that the risk are often born by the banks, and the owners are protected from personal capital loss by the corporate entities. so the risk are not as catastrophic as you seem to want to make it.

and as many here seem to be pointing out.
If you lose a job OR biz then well JUST get ANOTHER ONE.
don't be cry baby about it right?




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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Bill gates is worth a lot because of what he built, not because his bathrooms are clean.
Did I say differently?
He LEAD a teams of people, and many people purchased the products.

Many customers much money, if there were NO customers their be no money.
for the organization or the clean bathroom.

There are people that have as good organizational skills as Gates but they product or services is not a s popular or successful.

If someone created a free Quatum software that did everything MSwindows and better, Gates "organizational skills" wouldn't save the company if he didn't change the biz model.

point is, the biz is "valued" based on success of the product and/or service. that service is collectively provided by ALL of the employees.

The rise and fall of the that values is based on the collective effort.
A person cleaning the floors at Gates HOME should be expected to get more than someone that's cleaning for Joe Blow.

Selling is a job where it's more clear.
Selling a mansion gets more funds than selling trailer. but the job is essentially the same.
A baseball player in the little league compared to a major leguers. same activity different pay.
the difference is often the amount of people willing to pay. Not so much a HUGE skill difference.
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

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3% is a BS number, not reflexive of the real world.



I think that 3% number is hogwash because there are lots of people who earn just above minimum wage.They might earn 50 cents more an hour or they might make 12 bucks or more an hour.
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
that's part of the problem i guess.



every one here agrees that the boss should get MORE. that's not a question.
and risking the Capital is an investment is an investment that should be compensated accordingly as well.
but we both know that if your a corporation that the risk are often born by the banks, and the owners are protected from personal capital loss by the corporate entities. so the risk are not as catastrophic as you seem to want to make it.

and as many here seem to be pointing out.
If you lose a job OR biz then well JUST get ANOTHER ONE.
don't be cry baby about it right?




Did I say differently?
He LEAD a teams of people, and many people purchased the products.

Many customers much money, if there were NO customers their be no money.
for the organization or the clean bathroom.

There are people that have as good organizational skills as Gates but they product or services is not a s popular or successful.

If someone created a free Quatum software that did everything MSwindows and better, Gates "organizational skills" wouldn't save the company if he didn't change the biz model.

point is, the biz is "valued" based on success of the product and/or service. that service is collectively provided by ALL of the employees.

The rise and fall of the that values is based on the collective effort.
A person cleaning the floors at Gates HOME should be expected to get more than someone that's cleaning for Joe Blow.

Selling is a job where it's more clear.
Selling a mansion gets more funds than selling trailer. but the job is essentially the same.
A baseball player in the little league compared to a major leguers. same activity different pay.
the difference is often the amount of people willing to pay. Not so much a HUGE skill difference.
Gates built a multi billion dollar company creating a handful of billionaires and over a thousand millionaires. That is the measure of his skills and value to the company. Keep in mind Gates dropped out of Harvard to start the company. Gates was the one who convinced IBM to license the MS DOS operating system for its PC. It was Gates decision to open MS operating systems so independent application software developers could create systems based on it. After proclaiming the internet dead, Gates turned MS 180 degrees to embrace the internet. But hey, we should have government bureaucrats and politicians decide his compensation based on an arbitrary definition of fairness.

Using your same task standard the owner operator of a hot dog cart requires the same skills as Bill Gates. This is absurd. We have to allow the market to set compensation if we are going to have great new companies developing in the US instead of watching them spring up overseas.
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