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Economics Discuss Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment at the Political Forums; The Left had a collective hard-on when this came out... It doesn't work and Finland has to now reign it ...

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Old 04-23-2018, 10:34 PM
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Default Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

The Left had a collective hard-on when this came out...

It doesn't work and Finland has to now reign it in, but, like Socialism, many will want to believe the 800th time's the charm...

Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

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Since the beginning of last year, 2000 Finns are getting money from the government each month – and they are not expected to do anything in return. The participants, aged 25–58, are all unemployed, and were selected at random by Kela, Finland’s social-security institution.

Instead of unemployment benefits, the participants now receive €560, or $690, per month, tax free. Should they find a job during the two-year trial, they still get to keep the money.

While the project is praised internationally for being at the cutting edge of social welfare, back in Finland, decision makers are quietly pulling the brakes, making a U-turn that is taking the project in a whole new direction.

”Right now, the government is making changes that are taking the system further away from a basic income,” Kela researcher Miska Simanainen told the Swedish daily Svenska Dagbladet.

...The existing unemployment benefits were so high, the Finnish government argued, and the system so rigid, an unemployed person might choose not to take a job as they would risk losing money by doing so – the higher your earnings, the lower your social benefits. The basic income was meant as an incentive for people to start working.

But in December last year, the Finnish parliament passed a bill that is taking the country’s welfare system in quite the opposite direction. The new ’activation model’ law requires jobseekers to work a minimum of 18 hours for three months – if you don’t manage to find such a job, you lose some of your benefits. And Finance Minister Petteri Orpo already has plans for a new project once the basic income pilot concludes in December 2018.

”When the basic income experiment ends this year, we should launch a universal credit trial,” Orpo told Finnish newspaper Hufvudstadsbladet, referring to a system similar to that currently in use in the United Kingdom, which collects a number of different benefits and tax credits into one account.

No official results of Finland’s basic income experiment will be published until 2019, after the pilot has come to an end.
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

So they found that when you pay people not to work, incintivizes people not work? Who would have guessed?
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

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So they found that when you pay people not to work, incintivizes people not work? Who would have guessed?
The same effect works here in the USA.

It's called Social Security Disability. And it is bankrupting the system and our work ethic.
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:50 PM
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Post Re: Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
The Left had a collective hard-on when this came out...
No. "The Left" really didn't have that at all...
Looking through the site history, I don't see anybody on the left raising any thread on this.
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

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No. "The Left" really didn't have that at all...
Looking through the site history, I don't see anybody on the left raising any thread on this.
You do realize, there is a reactive world out there other than PW, and most of the members here do actually read and react to 'other' media....
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:18 AM
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Default Re: Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

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No. "The Left" really didn't have that at all...
Looking through the site history, I don't see anybody on the left raising any thread on this.
A government guaranteed standard of living has been a staple of Progressive politicians since FDR issued a call for a new bill of rights in his fourth inaugural speech. Bernie Sanders calls for a universal standard of living as a staple of his rhetoric. Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg and government subsidy king Elon Musk have expressed support for the idea of government provided universal income.

The real agenda is to create more dependence on the Federal government so they will vote for the party that promises them more handouts, Democrats.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

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A government guaranteed standard of living has been a staple of Progressive politicians since FDR issued a call for a new bill of rights in his fourth inaugural speech. Bernie Sanders calls for a universal standard of living as a staple of his rhetoric. Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg and government subsidy king Elon Musk have expressed support for the idea of government provided universal income.

The real agenda is to create more dependence on the Federal government so they will vote for the party that promises them more handouts, Democrats.
If you are provided income from the government, does that not mean you are employed by and work for the government? I thought the idea of the "Great Experiment" of 1789 was that the government worked for the people.

Pray tell me, what'd I miss?


Finland, a former monarchy ( still is) governs it's subjects. If it wants to award them payments, fine. We used to call that economic/governmental system "subjects of the Crown." Now we call it socialism.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
If you are provided income from the government, does that not mean you are employed by and work for the government? I thought the idea of the "Great Experiment" of 1789 was that the government worked for the people.

Pray tell me, what'd I miss?


Finland, a former monarchy ( still is) governs it's subjects. If it wants to award them payments, fine. We used to call that economic/governmental system "subjects of the Crown." Now we call it socialism.
Exactly. And notice the number of prominent Democratic politicians that are now openly embracing Socialism. It is also being pushed in our schools and Universities. I saw a poll recently that said that a growing number of millennial's are in favor of Socialism. (Granted, they may not really understand that Socialism is form of government as my impression of our educational system is way below my expectations.)
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:43 AM
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Default Re: Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

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Exactly. And notice the number of prominent Democratic politicians that are now openly embracing Socialism. It is also being pushed in our schools and Universities. I saw a poll recently that said that a growing number of millennial's are in favor of Socialism. (Granted, they may not really understand that Socialism is form of government as my impression of our educational system is way below my expectations.)
Socialism, Progressivism, Communism, Monarchies, whatever the name used, it's all "serfdom."
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:20 AM
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Post Re: Finland is killing its world-famous basic income experiment

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
You do realize, there is a reactive world out there other than PW, and most of the members here do actually read and react to 'other' media....
If you want to provide any evidence that shows "The Left" had a "collective hard-on" regarding the Finland experiment, please provide it.

Otherwise, your response is a meaningless distraction. I never presented this forum as absolute proof. Simply an example of the reality of the situation.
Too many threads around here revolve around a strawman claim of what "the left" does and then a completely refusal to acknowledge how the author is simply latching onto individual examples.

You have heard of "proving a negative" before and the difficulties it entails, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger
A government guaranteed standard of living has been a staple of Progressive politicians since FDR issued a call for a new bill of rights in his fourth inaugural speech.
Yet again, you blindly make claims with absolutely no validation of your claims.
I have no doubt you can find individual examples here and there. But the truth is that most on the left in the U.S. do not prescribe to what you describe.
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