Oh it's true that socialism has gained in popularity among millenials, and it's also true that capitalism has seen a decline. Probably has less to do with secret socialist agents in colleges, and more to do with that generation having to enter the greater economy and the job market when the Great Recession hit. That on top of having to deal with slow wage growth, lesser career prospects than their parents, the growing burden of an already massive student debt bubble, and the worsening gap in economic and income inequality.

And when we point out these real problems in the current economic climate, problems that don't just affect the younger generation, we get dismissed as being brainwashed by some socialist cabal of educators.

I'm not totally on board with a universal basic income even if I can see its merits, and I'm definitely no socialist, but maybe captialism needs to improve and market itself better should it want to maintain its lead in our marketplace of economic ideas.

Also I have yet to see some sort of growth among politicians pledging to seize the means of production lol. Some have moved left, but not near that extreme.

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"He's now president for life. President for life. And he's great," Trump said. "And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll give that a shot some day."

And you'll note that I did not like-thank-agree with the collective hard-on statement. Your statement referenced this forum, and I responded to that statement at face value.

I know all about 'proving a negative', but I don't find it applicable to this particular discussion.

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Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you can't laugh at yourself, you might as well get embalmed

I guess it is a matter of perception. It should be a mater of facts.

After generations of socialist propaganda, perhaps the support for capitalism has waned. Capitalism itself is not failing. The last 18 months prove that beyond doubt to most open minded observers.

Universal basic income is as big a lie to the working class as minimum wages. Based on the concept that standing in a bucket, and pulling up on the handle will raise your elevation. It simply raises the price of everything for everybody. It is why most socialist countries enjoy rampant inflation just before they collapse.

If your government treasury is filled by the taxed efforts of productive workers, in a productive economy, how do you fill those coffers when everybody stays home?

President Malcom said it today before Congress. "Freedom,,.. Democracy exists only when you have a healthy middle class." He did not say therefore everyone needs and income. He said everyone needs a job. To that he received a standing Ovation.

Even Democrats stood.

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I am going to hang a Batman Costume in my closet. .......... Just to screw with myself when I get alzheimer's.
sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura.

I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN, I AM A FREEMAN, THE DEMOCRATS WORST NIGHTMARE

Capitalism works every time it's tried. However, we don't have pure capitalism in this country, we have crony capitalism. Too many politicians greasing the skids for their donors.

Socialism on the other hand, is being promoted by the leftist college professors that more than likely, have never held a meaningful job outside the educational field and are teaching based on "theory". To them, Socialism is the be all, end all to solve the worlds problems as they seem to ignore it's failures in every instance it has been tried.

As for politicians promising to seize the means of production, look no further that Maxine Waters.

FLASHBACK: Maxine Waters Once Said She Wants To “Socialize” America’s Oil Companies (VIDEO) – American Lookout

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To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine

So did Hillary Clinton...

Just steal their profits and create a fund to destroy them...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

Socialism is not limited to government owning the means of production, it includes so-called societal control of business. Shortly after his election Newsweek ran an edition with "We are all socialists now" on the cover and a collection of articles inside praising Obama's fundamental transformation, to socialism, policies. Obama didn't disappoint with government takeovers of the auto manufacturing industry, healthcare and financial services. The claim that these actions weren't socialism because the Federal government doesn't own the business ignores the long history of socialist movements in the US from the New Deal where Federal bureaucrats dictated minimum prices and prohibited customers from selecting chickens to purchase to Obama's nationalization of automobile manufacturers to Bernie Sanders redistribution of wealth.

Capitalism doesn't need marketing, attention to results is sufficiently persuasive. Its critics are reduced to demagoguery along with the implication socialism will magically solve these problems. Of course the facts that taxpayers are on the hook for an additional $25 billion in national debt for the GM and Chrysler bailouts while foreign manufacturer Fiat acquired a dumping ground for debt at bargain basement prices isn't mentioned.

Socialism only has popularity because it sounds good, marketing. Capitalism only sounds evil if it is assigned blame for all problems and its performance is ignored.

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The Democrat's strategy for the Trump Presidency is the same one used by Stalin's secret police chief "show me the man and I will show you the crime."

Let us not ignore the benefits of socialism include policies having nothing to do with "ownership " of the means of production. It also includes the means of reproduction and sanctioned death of the ill, the lame and the unborn.


The true evil of Socialism has names. Can you say Charlie Gard or Alfie Evans?

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I am going to hang a Batman Costume in my closet. .......... Just to screw with myself when I get alzheimer's.
sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura.

I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN, I AM A FREEMAN, THE DEMOCRATS WORST NIGHTMARE

You have identified the difference between socialism and fascism. Ownership of the business by government is socialist, control of business through pricing, over regulation, etc is fascism.

Fascism is a variety of socialism distinguished typically by strong nationalism and militarism. FDR set up the NIRA headed by an army general noted for his authoritarian leadership style. Mass marches were staged featuring the stark image of an eagle head in profile. FDR denounced so-called economic royalists blaming them for the troubles of the working man. Before Pearl Harbor FDR was publicly opposed to any US involvement in European wars as he called them.

While FDR practiced a fascist style of socialism, contemporary Progressives advocate Federal government control over every aspect of business along with US participation in the global community as just another nation or as a previously rogue nation with a lot to make up for.

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The Democrat's strategy for the Trump Presidency is the same one used by Stalin's secret police chief "show me the man and I will show you the crime."

It's a lesson I am eternally trying to learn to take things in context.

If John says something and I reply, I am responding to John's statement.
If I had been talking to somebody else, I probably would not have said the same thing...

Thread after thread around here revolve around bad stereo-types that blindly drive a wedge between the parties and make discussion stupid and pointless.
I've found it's impossible for me to discuss MY opinion on guns with people who want to assume I (or the monolithic left) want to take everybody's guns.
It's impossible to have a discussion about the actual topic of this thread when people blindly (and inaccurately) claim that the left blindly supports it.

And I think that's the point of some posters.
They do not want to actually discuss the topic. They simply want to demonize the other side.

When I first read the article I liked the following quote: "The new ’activation model’ law requires jobseekers to work a minimum of 18 hours for three months – if you don’t manage to find such a job, you lose some of your benefits"
That is something positive to me. I like that idea and would love to understand more about how it's implemented.

But it's impossible to have that discussion with people who are automatically assuming "the left" is the extremist view.


That's because you're ignoring the statement I was actually responding to.

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“Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
~Abraham Lincoln