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Economics Discuss Trumpís Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by FrancSevin Me too also...; But as of yet, I still haven't heard anyone explain how tax cuts ...

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Old 11-13-2017, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Trumpís Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Me too also...; But as of yet, I still haven't heard anyone explain how tax cuts are a "Money Grab."

From depreciation schedules to mortgage interest deductions to oil depletion allowance, toss it all out. Flat tax, with no loopholes or incentives for anyone is the fairest "equal" tax system. But then the word "equal" (along with "fair") seems a bit more malleable, and subjective, these days.

Again,,,;
Perhaps I would better understand the complicated issues of Tax Reform if someone would explain how cutting taxes is a money grab.
I've long believed that a simple flat tax would be the most equal and fair tax code.
How much money did you make? Multiple that number by the X% tax rate. That's how much you owe in federal tax.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure what that X% should be. I do think it should be the same whether one earns $1 or $100,000,000 (or more).
No write offs, no deductions, no differentiation between earned income and investment income.
Also, SS taxes should apply to all earned income and not capped. I'm okay with SS taxes NOT being applied to investment income.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: Trumpís Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History

(1) Those who are wealthy pay the overwhelming majority of taxes in this country--many middle-class people (as regarding which, I am one) pay no taxes at all--so naturally, the bulk of any tax cut will go to the wealthy.

(2) When Ronald Reagan cut taxes--or, even further back than that, when JFK did so--it significantly boosted the economy.

(3) A tax cut on corporations helps individuals, as businesses are then able to expand. But liberals now prefer to deride this simple fact as "trickle-down economics"--as though that automatically proved it to be mistaken.

(4) A "soak-the-rich" mindset is really not in keeping with traditional American values, which celebrate success--rather than seeking to punish it.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Trumpís Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History

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(1) Those who are wealthy pay the overwhelming majority of taxes in this country--many middle-class people (as regarding which, I am one) pay no taxes at all--so naturally, the bulk of any tax cut will go to the wealthy.

(2) When Ronald Reagan cut taxes--or, even further back than that, when JFK did so--it significantly boosted the economy.

(3) A tax cut on corporations helps individuals, as businesses are then able to expand. But liberals now prefer to deride this simple fact as "trickle-down economics"--as though that automatically proved it to be mistaken.

(4) A "soak-the-rich" mindset is really not in keeping with traditional American values, which celebrate success--rather than seeking to punish it.
I have to disagree with that statement (bolded).

I consider myself (income-wise) base middle class, and I pay plenty of federal income tax. Most of my contemporaries do also. I don't have enough deductions to itemize, I don't carry debt, but I definitely pay more than 18% of my unadjusted gross income.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Trumpís Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History

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I have to disagree with that statement (bolded).

I consider myself (income-wise) base middle class, and I pay plenty of federal income tax. Most of my contemporaries do also. I don't have enough deductions to itemize, I don't carry debt, but I definitely pay more than 18% of my unadjusted gross income.
You are far more expert on your own situation than I am.

But I said merely that "many" middle-class people pay no federal taxes at all.

And it would be a mistake to argue from the specific to the general.

And why would you disagree with the statement that Americans have typically celebrated success?
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Trumpís Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History

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You are far more expert on your own situation than I am.

But I said merely that "many" middle-class people pay no federal taxes at all.

And it would be a mistake to argue from the specific to the general.

And why would you disagree with the statement that Americans have typically celebrated success?
I didn't disagree with the celebrated success - I disagreed with the statement regarding middle class paying federal taxes. I still disagree with that statement. Middle class income households DO pay federal taxes. I'd be interested in seeing proof that they don't....
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: Trumpís Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History

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I didn't disagree with the celebrated success - I disagreed with the statement regarding middle class paying federal taxes. I still disagree with that statement. Middle class income households DO pay federal taxes. I'd be interested in seeing proof that they don't....
First let's be precise about which taxes we are discussing, Federal income tax. There are other taxes used to deflect attention from the inequality of the income tax.

Defining the middle class with a specific income number is critical. The median family income is around $54,000 per year. Depending on where the line defining middle class is drawn, the claim could be true or false. There are a handful of high income filers but the rest of the 45%+ that pay no Federal income tax.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.marke...4-A2CD00F97721
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Old 11-15-2017, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: Trumpís Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
First let's be precise about which taxes we are discussing, Federal income tax. There are other taxes used to deflect attention from the inequality of the income tax.

Defining the middle class with a specific income number is critical. The median family income is around $54,000 per year. Depending on where the line defining middle class is drawn, the claim could be true or false. There are a handful of high income filers but the rest of the 45%+ that pay no Federal income tax.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.marke...4-A2CD00F97721
After a little research, by income apparently I am now mid to upper middle class. Perhaps the fact that I don't have all the extra deductions other's have is the reason I get the fun of paying.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Trumpís Tax Cuts Are the Biggest Wealth Grab in Modern History

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
First let's be precise about which taxes we are discussing, Federal income tax. There are other taxes used to deflect attention from the inequality of the income tax.

Defining the middle class with a specific income number is critical. The median family income is around $54,000 per year. Depending on where the line defining middle class is drawn, the claim could be true or false. There are a handful of high income filers but the rest of the 45%+ that pay no Federal income tax.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.marke...4-A2CD00F97721
When my income was around $54,000 I ran the numbers and discovered that my effective tax rate (+ government fees) was about 50% of my income.
Federal income tax.
State income tax.
Social Security tax.
Medicare tax.
Sales tax.
City mass transportation tax.
Federal and state gasoline tax.
Alcohol tax.
Tobacco tax.
Phone tax.
Property tax.
Vehicle tax.
Vehicle registration fee.
County services fee.
City services fee.
Storm water fee.

Yep,
fed, state, county, city all figure out a way to tax the common person.
They're much more effective at figuring out a new tax or fee than they are about figuring out how to cut expenses.
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