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Economics Discuss How 90% of American Households Lost an Average of $17,000 in Wealth to the Plutocrats at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by foundit66 First off, a strawman is when I claim your position is something it isn't (a weaker ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: How 90% of American Households Lost an Average of $17,000 in Wealth to the Plutoc

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
First off, a strawman is when I claim your position is something it isn't (a weaker one) and then I attack the position you don't actually hold.

That isn't what happened.
I clarified my position. I wasn't claiming you said the problem is that wealthy people exist.

But even acknowledging that, you are chasing your tail.
On the one hand, you try to pretend (despite my actual statements to the contrary) that my goal is to equalize pay...
... but then you also try to pretend that you understand that the problem IS NOT JUST some people getting more...

The two are inconsistent for you.
LISTEN to what I am saying instead of trying to put words in my mouth.

FOR THE SECOND TIME, this is not about making sure everybody's pay is equal.
This is about how the ratio of growth has favored exclusively the upper crust.

Suppose in 1978 we had a CEO making making $250K
And the average worker was paid $48K.
Okay. CEOs make more. Understood.

Over time the pay growth has gone almost exclusively to the CEO
The CEO pay growth has grown ~ 1,000%
While the average worker pay is only about $53,000.
The disparity in growth allocation is the problem.
Your folderall about saying the rich shouldn't exist, is not something I said or intimated, so IMO, yes, strawman. You were pulling something that wasn't part of the discussion, as though it were the discussion.

And who decided that the ratios had to be equal? Why should they be equal? Considering what is expected of a CEO, and what happens if they don't meet the expectations is far greater than an average worker.

The cost of a house has grown faster than the cost of milk. The income of a plumber has grown faster than a burger-flipper. No two things 'grow' at the same rate as another.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2017, 01:17 PM
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Post Re: How 90% of American Households Lost an Average of $17,000 in Wealth to the Plutoc

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Again, wealth is not a stagnant pool. Perhaps you need to justify why the worker who has done nothing more to deserve more of that pool...
Do you get that you keep ASSUMING that the worker has done nothing more to deserve more of that pool...
... but you have never questioned if the CEO has done anything to deserve a 1,000% increase?

And as I stated before (but you ignored), the average American worker is what I'm talking about.
They are one of the hardest working, most productive workers on the planet.

U.S. Workers World's Most Productive
Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

So QUIT WITH YOUR ATTACKS that they haven't earned it.

I've also presented this study before too.
The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says
But let me guess. You don't give a damn about whether the CEOs earned it, do you...
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Old 08-31-2017, 01:23 PM
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Post Re: How 90% of American Households Lost an Average of $17,000 in Wealth to the Plutoc

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Your folderall about saying the rich shouldn't exist, is not something I said or intimated, so IMO, yes, strawman.
"folderall" ???

I never claimed that you said "the rich shouldn't exist".
However, you do keep trying to claim "wage inequality" means something it doesn't even after I correct you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
And who decided that the ratios had to be equal? Why should they be equal? Considering what is expected of a CEO, and what happens if they don't meet the expectations is far greater than an average worker.
Do you understand the difference between BASE and GROWTH?
The fact that CEOs earn more IS NOT IN QUESTION.

The GROWTH is the issue.
"what is expected of a CEO" has not grown 1,000% over the last 35 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
The cost of a house has grown faster than the cost of milk. The income of a plumber has grown faster than a burger-flipper. No two things 'grow' at the same rate as another.
One is stagnating while the other is growing rapidly.
THAT is the distinction!
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: How 90% of American Households Lost an Average of $17,000 in Wealth to the Plutoc

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Do you get that you keep ASSUMING that the worker has done nothing more to deserve more of that pool...
... but you have never questioned if the CEO has done anything to deserve a 1,000% increase?

And as I stated before (but you ignored), the average American worker is what I'm talking about.
They are one of the hardest working, most productive workers on the planet.

U.S. Workers World's Most Productive
Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

So QUIT WITH YOUR ATTACKS that they haven't earned it.

I've also presented this study before too.
The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says
But let me guess. You don't give a damn about whether the CEOs earned it, do you...
You keep leaving something out, conveniently. I've also said that those who do something to improve themselves, or improve the company, or both, earn more.

I could care less what someone else earns. I know for a fact that my predecessor here earned more than I do. So what - I'm comfortable with what I make, and that's what matters. If someone were to come into my position today, and be paid more for it, then I guess I didn't perform up to expectations, and that's on me.

This whole thing about what someone else earns is a rather manufactured (here's a liberal phrase for ya) poutrage.

If a person doesn't earn what they think their worth, without comparing themselves to someone else who likely has a whole different education/experience/attitude, then they should inquire why and/or find a company that does value their worth.

When there are fewer employers hiring than employees available, the market goes down. Adjust. Make yourself more valuable.
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Old 08-31-2017, 06:16 PM
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Post Re: How 90% of American Households Lost an Average of $17,000 in Wealth to the Plutoc

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
You keep leaving something out, conveniently. I've also said that those who do something to improve themselves, or improve the company, or both, earn more.
But this isn't always true, as already documented regarding wage stagnation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I could care less what someone else earns. I know for a fact that my predecessor here earned more than I do. So what - I'm comfortable with what I make, and that's what matters. If someone were to come into my position today, and be paid more for it, then I guess I didn't perform up to expectations, and that's on me.
Your satisfaction for your job is not relevant regarding the economy's problems.
Moreover, it would be more accurate to recognize that while you may be comfortable with your wage, you are obviously not comfortable with other people pointing out wage stagnation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
This whole thing about what someone else earns is a rather manufactured (here's a liberal phrase for ya) poutrage.
If a person doesn't earn what they think their worth, without comparing themselves to someone else who likely has a whole different education/experience/attitude, then they should inquire why and/or find a company that does value their worth.
That's a pithy and meaningless statement considering wages are suppressed across the board.

Take for example this case where there was actually proof of the wrong-doings.
Apple, Google, Intel, Adobe will pay $415 million in anti-poach deal | Fortune.com
It's pathetic how people like you will complain when people talk about wage suppression ...
... but then you guys are silent when such illegal activities are found.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2017, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: How 90% of American Households Lost an Average of $17,000 in Wealth to the Plutoc

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
But this isn't always true, as already documented regarding wage stagnation.

Your satisfaction for your job is not relevant regarding the economy's problems.
Moreover, it would be more accurate to recognize that while you may be comfortable with your wage, you are obviously not comfortable with other people pointing out wage stagnation.

That's a pithy and meaningless statement considering wages are suppressed across the board.

Take for example this case where there was actually proof of the wrong-doings.
Apple, Google, Intel, Adobe will pay $415 million in anti-poach deal | Fortune.com
It's pathetic how people like you will complain when people talk about wage suppression ...
... but then you guys are silent when such illegal activities are found.
Something or someone is only worth what the market is willing to pay, that is an absolute. If a particular employment market it flooded with candidates, then it's likely wages will go down. That is an absolute.

Complain about 'wage suppression'? When have I complained about people talking about wage suppression? Be specific, please. I disagree on the premise that it is either the CEOs fault, or a company's fault that they are willing to pay what the market allows. That burden is up to the individual to make themselves worth more.

I was making a point regarding my position, but apparently you don't care to acknowledge that people can make themselves worth more, and prefer to lay the guilt on other parties. That's fine if you want to believe that, but don't think everyone is going to agree with you.

If a company violates law, then they should be held accountable. I can't say something about an event if I am not aware they did something illegal, now can I? I spend most of my time making sure the company I work for adheres to law, after all, that's part of what they pay me for. How ridiculous to complain about 'you guys being silent' when we may not know it happened.

I will read your link in a bit.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: How 90% of American Households Lost an Average of $17,000 in Wealth to the Plutoc

We have been fuqed ever since Reagan
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