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Economics Discuss Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 2000? at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by foundit66 By this limited analysis, I could make an argument that it's the rich and corporations who ...

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Old 01-29-2014, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 20

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
By this limited analysis, I could make an argument that it's the rich and corporations who feed at the government trough based solely on how much money is received by who.
Think by Numbers Government Spends More on Corporate Welfare Subsidies than Social Welfare Programs

So is the right now going to abandon complaints on social welfare and instead subsist on railing against corporate subsidies???

We BOTH KNOW that it's the welfare that the right complains about because the people involved don't pay much in taxes but take more out. It's BOTH factors that are involved.
And both should be stopped. Welfare is welfare. Personal or corporate, our government doesn't need to be in this business at all.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:38 AM
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Default Re: Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 20

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Now post who has the stupidest populations.
Your house.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 20

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Yes we do. Much higher than most states.
yeah it shows in who is elected there now a days.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 20

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yeah it shows in who is elected there now a days.
Yeah, Pretty good job Brown is doing. Better than Arnold.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 20

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
By this limited analysis, I could make an argument that it's the rich and corporations who feed at the government trough based solely on how much money is received by who.
Think by Numbers Government Spends More on Corporate Welfare Subsidies than Social Welfare Programs

So is the right now going to abandon complaints on social welfare and instead subsist on railing against corporate subsidies???

We BOTH KNOW that it's the welfare that the right complains about because the people involved don't pay much in taxes but take more out. It's BOTH factors that are involved.
Nope...

Tax credits are NOT moneys received...

It's what goes BACK into the system that matters...Did the money given up by the government get RETURNED through revenue?...

Example...

A company gets a 10-year $10 million dollar tax break to set up shop...At the end of that 10 years, the company profits create $100 million in local and federal revenue...Government made money on its tax break...

Another company (and green energy is notoriously known for this) gets a 10-year $10 million dollar tax break to set up shop...At the end of that 10 years, the company is $100 million in the hole, hasn't had ONE year where a profit was made, and the local and federal government gets NO revenue returned...a complete loss to the taxpayer...a total waste...
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 20

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I wasn't talking about intelligence. I was talking about stupidity.
You mean stupid like being too dumb to provide an intelligent response beyond "Fox News!!"??
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Old 01-31-2014, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 20

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Nope...

Tax credits are NOT moneys received...

It's what goes BACK into the system that matters...Did the money given up by the government get RETURNED through revenue?...

Example...

A company gets a 10-year $10 million dollar tax break to set up shop...At the end of that 10 years, the company profits create $100 million in local and federal revenue...Government made money on its tax break...

Another company (and green energy is notoriously known for this) gets a 10-year $10 million dollar tax break to set up shop...At the end of that 10 years, the company is $100 million in the hole, hasn't had ONE year where a profit was made, and the local and federal government gets NO revenue returned...a complete loss to the taxpayer...a total waste...
I know how you feel, it sends me into a rage also. Walmart, for example never, ever, get a tax break or incentive for opening up a store in a community except that it does. And they hire people too. They're job creators. And the jobs lost for all the stores closed down in the communities where Walmart comes? They transfer to Walmart. Net job gain for the community? It would be a wash but for the subsidies to the corporation. "Free Lunch" by David Johnston is a pretty good read on corporate welfare.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 20

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You mean stupid like being too dumb to provide an intelligent response beyond "Fox News!!"??
Dumb is not realizing fox is a propaganda tool.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:34 AM
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Post Re: Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 20

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Nope...
Tax credits are NOT moneys received...
It's what goes BACK into the system that matters...Did the money given up by the government get RETURNED through revenue?...
Example...
A company gets a 10-year $10 million dollar tax break to set up shop...At the end of that 10 years, the company profits create $100 million in local and federal revenue...Government made money on its tax break...
Another company (and green energy is notoriously known for this) gets a 10-year $10 million dollar tax break to set up shop...At the end of that 10 years, the company is $100 million in the hole, hasn't had ONE year where a profit was made, and the local and federal government gets NO revenue returned...a complete loss to the taxpayer...a total waste...
The problem with this reply is you're already creating a new distinction. Pointing to a new factor that you feel is important.

And as I pointed, it is not just how much money they take from the federal government, but the ratio of what the states pay in compared to what they receive that is important.
THAT is how it has been pointed out in NUMEROUS threads.
Do you need me to dig up the examples?

If you want me to take seriously the distinction of "Tax credits are NOT moneys received", then shouldn't you take seriously the distinction of it being the ratio of taxes paid to the fed government vs moneys received which is important?


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Originally Posted by larryr View Post
I know how you feel, it sends me into a rage also. Walmart, for example never, ever, get a tax break or incentive for opening up a store in a community except that it does. And they hire people too. They're job creators. And the jobs lost for all the stores closed down in the communities where Walmart comes? They transfer to Walmart. Net job gain for the community? It would be a wash but for the subsidies to the corporation. "Free Lunch" by David Johnston is a pretty good read on corporate welfare.
I thank you for going there.
At first I wanted to reply to cnredd commenting on how the "$10 million => $100 million" is habitually a pipe dream.

On this forum there is a thread talking about companies which received tax credits in order to spur employment growth.
And then the article documents the company outsourcing jobs overseas...
The right-wing reaction (from some individuals) was that the company was simply in the business of creating profit. And thus had no responsibility to create jobs in America.
My mind imploded at how the point went whizzing by their head that they should not be taking these tax credits for the claimed purpose of spurring job growth in America if they refuse to do it.

Some on the right will jump up and down about how we should have tax credits or more tax rebates for the rich to spur job growth, but there's never an honest reflection to see if that actually did what it claimed it would do.
If the right can blame such a mechanism on Obama, then they'll recognize the problem...
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 20

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The problem with this reply is you're already creating a new distinction. Pointing to a new factor that you feel is important.

And as I pointed, it is not just how much money they take from the federal government, but the ratio of what the states pay in compared to what they receive that is important.
THAT is how it has been pointed out in NUMEROUS threads.
Do you need me to dig up the examples?

If you want me to take seriously the distinction of "Tax credits are NOT moneys received", then shouldn't you take seriously the distinction of it being the ratio of taxes paid to the fed government vs moneys received which is important?



I thank you for going there.
At first I wanted to reply to cnredd commenting on how the "$10 million => $100 million" is habitually a pipe dream.

On this forum there is a thread talking about companies which received tax credits in order to spur employment growth.
And then the article documents the company outsourcing jobs overseas...
The right-wing reaction (from some individuals) was that the company was simply in the business of creating profit. And thus had no responsibility to create jobs in America.
My mind imploded at how the point went whizzing by their head that they should not be taking these tax credits for the claimed purpose of spurring job growth in America if they refuse to do it.

Some on the right will jump up and down about how we should have tax credits or more tax rebates for the rich to spur job growth, but there's never an honest reflection to see if that actually did what it claimed it would do.
If the right can blame such a mechanism on Obama, then they'll recognize the problem...
The ratio between Federal tax receipts and spending for each state is important only if we pretend each state is the same. Let's ignore that 4 states have a border with Mexico. Let's pretend there are no massive native American reservations in AZ or NM. They ought to be up in arms over not getting their equal share of spending for the navy.

Of course the "fair" ratio of Federal spending to revenue for each state would be 1 to 1. Which begs the question, why not let the states keep the tax money eliminating the cost of the bloated Federal bureaucracy? Clearly that wouldn't work if applied to all Federal spending but that doesn't prevent demogoging.

Let's apply the revenue to payout ratio test to individuals instead of the states. The top 10% of earners pay 60% of Federal income taxes while the bottom 47% pay none. Where is the justice in that?
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