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Economics Discuss Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Mikeyy They are two different conversations. One is cnredd's hype about the government he imagines "Liberals" want. ...

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
They are two different conversations. One is cnredd's hype about the government he imagines "Liberals" want. He imagines people like me want to be Greece. Someone like me who is for raising the retirement age, Who is for means testing. Ya know someone like me. I am not afraid of government. I am afraid of government done badly being represented as the only way it works. I see where it is done right and talk about it but it is ignored and shouted down by the "I hate my government" crowd.
Those words were, indeed, from "two different conversations"; but they still appear to contradict each other.

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
If you want to know what Krugmen says about these things look up what he says in it's entirety. Don't take something from the Brietbart rag and try to have a serious discussion from that.
Well, here is a link to another site (Noisy Room) that is also a bastion of conservativism; but which contains a video of Krugman's words: NoisyRoom.net Blog Archive Krugman On How To Pay For Entitlement Programs: ?Death Panels And Sales Taxes Is How We Do This??

Perhaps you will find this helpful...
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Those words were, indeed, from "two different conversations"; but they still appear to contradict each other.



Well, here is a link to another site (Noisy Room) that is also a bastion of conservativism; but which contains a video of Krugman's words: NoisyRoom.net Blog Archive Krugman On How To Pay For Entitlement Programs: ?Death Panels And Sales Taxes Is How We Do This??

Perhaps you will find this helpful...
Not really, He isn't proposing it. As far as I can tell he is suggesting things that are possible if certain conditions apply. Why are we watching fuzzy video from right wing sites that have taken a speech out of context? Find the entire speech or do what I did. Find the actual writings of Krugman on health care. It isn't hard to find. He writes about his thoughts on the subject a lot.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2013, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Ya know it's funny to me that the right complains about facts and then blames the guy showing them the facts. I suppose in the minds of some on the right just the fact that this is America and we are great these things will magically sort themselves out.

Unless we take a lot of the profit margin out of medicine and the health care system prices will continue to rise. Baby boomers will continue to get older and live longer adding more strain on the system. These are facts. If you don't like facts I'm sorry.
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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
So do you support the idea of rationing healthcare to those who are elderly in order to continue to prop up a system that can't pay for itself??


Sorry, I just asked Mikkey a direct question and that always confuses him. Please feel free to divert the discussion away from Krugman's statement about "death panels".
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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Explain what you mean and I will be glad to answer.
You claim that what Krugman was saying was factual and I asked you if you agreed with what he was saying regarding the "rationing" of healthcare. How hard is that to understand?? Krugman made a couple of claims in his answer and you made a blanket statement about what he said being factual. So I asked you if agreed with the point he made about the necessity for cutting back care to keep a fed. funded healthcare system fiscally solvent. You WOULDN'T answer my question and are now trying to act like you don't know what was asked. Why not just have an honest discussion without all the BS????
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2013, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing

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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
You claim that what Krugman was saying was factual and I asked you if you agreed with what he was saying regarding the "rationing" of healthcare. How hard is that to understand?? Krugman made a couple of claims in his answer and you made a blanket statement about what he said being factual. So I asked you if agreed with the point he made about the necessity for cutting back care to keep a fed. funded healthcare system fiscally solvent. You WOULDN'T answer my question and are now trying to act like you don't know what was asked. Why not just have an honest discussion without all the BS????
I won't play this game FS. If you want to discuss what Krugman believes first you have to show what Krugman believes
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2013, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing

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Not really, He isn't proposing it. As far as I can tell he is suggesting things that are possible if certain conditions apply.
Again, here is what Krugman says:

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We’re going to need more revenue…Surely it will require some sort of middle class taxes as well.. We won’t be able to pay for the kind of government the society will want without some increase in taxes… on the middle class, maybe a value added tax…And we’re also going to have to make decisions about health care, doc pay for health care that has no demonstrated medical benefits . So the snarky version…which I shouldn’t even say because it will get me in trouble is death panels and sales taxes is how we do this. [Bold added]
I really cannot imagine what might seem unclear about that...

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Why are we watching fuzzy video from right wing sites that have taken a speech out of context?
Translation: Because the video was culled from a "right wing site," you reject it out of hand.

Moreover, it is very difficult to see how a full quote--not just a sentence or two, either, but a fairly lengthy dissertation on the subject--might be "taken...out of context"...
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Again, here is what Krugman says:



I really cannot imagine what might seem unclear about that...



Translation: Because the video was culled from a "right wing site," you reject it out of hand.

Moreover, it is very difficult to see how a full quote--not just a sentence or two, either, but a fairly lengthy dissertation on the subject--might be "taken...out of context"...
We have seen Brietbart take a snippit from a fuller conversation and lie about the intent. I told you before that finding what Krugman thinks about health care is easy. Look do a little excersize that I just did. Get on google and type in Krugman calls for death panels. You will find 30 right wing sites that all refer back to this fuzzy incoherant piece of video from Brietbart. Don't you find that odd? Or partisan? Now stop with pushing the right wing agenda and educate yourself on what Krugman actually says rather that drag right wing propoganda and expecting me to comment on it. It's like asking me what it is about firing people Mitt Romney enjoys.

It's Health Care Costs, Stupid - NYTimes.com

Paul Krugman: Romney's health care plan is a recipe for death by ideology - San Jose Mercury News
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:30 PM
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Default Re: Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
I won't play this game FS. If you want to discuss what Krugman believes first you have to show what Krugman believes
You said that what he said was factual, so I asked you if you believed in the idea of cutting healthcare services to high risk patients to suuport teh fiscal solvency of a healthcare system. I would like some clarification on if that was what you considered to be a fact. I already CLEARLY stated that I wasn't sure what it was that Krugman was saying within the context of his full speech, but you seem to be fully aware of what he was saying since you stated that what he said was a fact, therefore, you obviously know what the context of his statement was. You threw out a rather vague comment and I asked for clarity. Given the context of your comment about what he was saying being fact, I am led to an assumption that supported the comment in the OP about this issue. I would like to be able to move past making an assumption and know if what I thought you were saying was what you were really saying.
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing

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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
You said that what he said was factual, so I asked you if you believed in the idea of cutting healthcare services to high risk patients to suuport teh fiscal solvency of a healthcare system. I would like some clarification on if that was what you considered to be a fact. I already CLEARLY stated that I wasn't sure what it was that Krugman was saying within the context of his full speech, but you seem to be fully aware of what he was saying since you stated that what he said was a fact, therefore, you obviously know what the context of his statement was. You threw out a rather vague comment and I asked for clarity. Given the context of your comment about what he was saying being fact, I am led to an assumption that supported the comment in the OP about this issue. I would like to be able to move past making an assumption and know if what I thought you were saying was what you were really saying.
Whether I heard words come out of his mouth has no relevence if they were not in a broader context. But I see you aren't going to address his view on health care.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing

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Whether I heard words come out of his mouth has no relevence if they were not in a broader context. But I see you aren't going to address his view on health care.
I give up. You're being intentionally stupid now.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: Krugman on the (ostensible) need for new taxes, healthcare rationing

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
We have seen Brietbart take a snippit from a fuller conversation and lie about the intent.
Actually, Andrew Breitbart died last year.

But I do not believe the site that bears his name "lie[s]."

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
I told you before that finding what Krugman thinks about health care is easy. Look do a little excersize that I just did. Get on google and type in Krugman calls for death panels. You will find 30 right wing sites that all refer back to this fuzzy incoherant piece of video from Brietbart.
What, exactly, was "incoherent" about the words spoken by Paul Krugman in that video?

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Don't you find that odd? Or partisan?
I find it "odd"--or, at least, quite "partisan"--that you refuse to admit that Paul Krugman's words are clear enough on the video provided.

In any case, here is a YouTube video that shows Krugman expressing very similar sentiments, on an interview on ABC's This Week:

It's Health Care Costs, Stupid - NYTimes.com
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