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Economics Discuss Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing? at the Political Forums; [quote] Originally Posted by faithful_servant Do you really think that businesses are going to raise thier expences without a comparable ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2012, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
Do you really think that businesses are going to raise thier expences without a comparable increase in price?? Who do you think is going to pay that increase?? Do you really think that no one will step in and fill the low price that they leave behind??
good old American entrepreneurs?
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

I swear. Sometimes some Republicans act like business-people are idiots.
And part of the problem is YOU ARE NOT LISTENING to the point I am making.

No. Business ARE NOT going to raise their expenses without a comparable increase in REVENUE.
And they also recognize if they raise prices too much, quantity sold will diminish (which also affects revenue).

So what you are failing to grasp is that if the tax incentive is not enough to make them shift the location of their production, THEN THEY WON'T DO IT.
Duh!

This whole idea that businesses will blindly do something stupid (like raise their prices so it inhibits sales)...
Now I see what you're getting at. What you're saying is that the gov't is offering a tax break that won't be taken advantage of and is simply posturing. I missed that part. You are right, if these tax breaks aren't good business decisions, then businesses won't take them. But if they aren't going to do any good, why offer them????
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Old 02-18-2012, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing?

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Jesus you guys settle for so much less than my generation is used to. It just slays me. I realize you don't know what you don't know. It's not expected if you never had it, and I have been watching this for years. The wages , the benefits of labor and even the service you expect (or don't expect).
There's really no way to convey what has been lost.
I need you to try to convey a bit harder. As it is I have no idea what you're disagreeing with here.
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzMike View Post
I need you to try to convey a bit harder. As it is I have no idea what you're disagreeing with here.
I will try.
Quote:
Az:I get the convenience angle but that's just not reality today if you want to buy USA. It's going to be a bit more effort and money but we can do it if we the buyers aren't lazy.
We had manufacturing in the 20s and 30s but during WWII we really stepped up and showed the world what can be done. We set the pace. Got not only ships built but geared ourselves up to be the best by even such mundane tasks as rubber drives and scrap drives. This takes stick to it-ivness and ingenuity. Then we made some mighty good products. People who worked hard and laid down the money got service with a smile.

I mean for me the one thing I never thought would happen was I could no longer go into a store and try on the shoes I was going to buy. I would say I have weird feet but EVERY body has weird feet with exceptions of course. Short of having them made to order there were many brands and makers to choose from and different types and materials for construction.
Now we have to find some shoe that we can fit our feet to not the other way around.

About the loss of service, a person would be fired if on a repeat basis she/he was on the phone or spoke roughly to a customer. This is in a service station, grocery, variety or hardware. Actually I like hardware stores cause they still maintain a modicum of service. I'm not saying these people should kiss my butt but jeez!

Take cell phones. Most times you buy one and get a plan, the personnel are over seas and give a pat answer to everything or you get a recording and prompts. This is unacceptable. We have the power with our money to change this. We should not be so nonchalant about what we the consumer deserve.

Banks give point something (.01%, .02%, .03%...)in interest. That is crazy. They obviously don't care if we open a savings account and I can't figure how they make much money on our checking accounts so it's no wonder many of them were running scams with mortgages.

Walmart has replaced a lot of individual businesses. Auto shop, hairdresser, sports store, grocery...etc.
NOW what happens? They stock what THEY want to offer. Instead of consumer demand leading them to stock what WE want. It might work online, but it does not work in glass and steel businesses. And that is a real shame.
It's not that we are spoiled. We BUILT and INVENTED most of the stuff and we have a right to expect if we pay good money we are to be offered a good variety of quality products.

Some things yes you can get a size and quantity--like you can order good kids clothes on line in bulk. But some things you need that service point in the sale or you feel cheated. Like I bought three pairs of shoes from this guy because I've been to several stores already, and there's very little difference. A lot of tennis shoes. The worst thing for your feet ever made unless you are in gym or are a track star. Don't work on a concrete floor in them or you won't have any posture left a few years down the line.

Restaurants. You have a great waiter but it's time for his break and the boss makes him take it and the replacement is worried about getting off to meet a friend.---I don't always have bad service but people don't care anymore and I assume it's because they are raised to think they should be a brain surgeon by now and I'm just the 'real world' creeping in.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, but there was a time when yes we expected service that we paid for. Now we pay more and get less. For what you give up nowadays to give to your job and make enough to live decent, you should be coddled and offered the very best-not just the "best we got from that cheap azz foreign manufacturer".
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--Ron Paul
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Old 02-19-2012, 01:00 AM
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Default Re: Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing?

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I will try.


We had manufacturing in the 20s and 30s but during WWII we really stepped up and showed the world what can be done. We set the pace. Got not only ships built but geared ourselves up to be the best by even such mundane tasks as rubber drives and scrap drives. This takes stick to it-ivness and ingenuity. Then we made some mighty good products. People who worked hard and laid down the money got service with a smile.

I mean for me the one thing I never thought would happen was I could no longer go into a store and try on the shoes I was going to buy. I would say I have weird feet but EVERY body has weird feet with exceptions of course. Short of having them made to order there were many brands and makers to choose from and different types and materials for construction.
Now we have to find some shoe that we can fit our feet to not the other way around.

About the loss of service, a person would be fired if on a repeat basis she/he was on the phone or spoke roughly to a customer. This is in a service station, grocery, variety or hardware. Actually I like hardware stores cause they still maintain a modicum of service. I'm not saying these people should kiss my butt but jeez!

Take cell phones. Most times you buy one and get a plan, the personnel are over seas and give a pat answer to everything or you get a recording and prompts. This is unacceptable. We have the power with our money to change this. We should not be so nonchalant about what we the consumer deserve.

Banks give point something (.01%, .02%, .03%...)in interest. That is crazy. They obviously don't care if we open a savings account and I can't figure how they make much money on our checking accounts so it's no wonder many of them were running scams with mortgages.

Walmart has replaced a lot of individual businesses. Auto shop, hairdresser, sports store, grocery...etc.
NOW what happens? They stock what THEY want to offer. Instead of consumer demand leading them to stock what WE want. It might work online, but it does not work in glass and steel businesses. And that is a real shame.
It's not that we are spoiled. We BUILT and INVENTED most of the stuff and we have a right to expect if we pay good money we are to be offered a good variety of quality products.

Some things yes you can get a size and quantity--like you can order good kids clothes on line in bulk. But some things you need that service point in the sale or you feel cheated. Like I bought three pairs of shoes from this guy because I've been to several stores already, and there's very little difference. A lot of tennis shoes. The worst thing for your feet ever made unless you are in gym or are a track star. Don't work on a concrete floor in them or you won't have any posture left a few years down the line.

Restaurants. You have a great waiter but it's time for his break and the boss makes him take it and the replacement is worried about getting off to meet a friend.---I don't always have bad service but people don't care anymore and I assume it's because they are raised to think they should be a brain surgeon by now and I'm just the 'real world' creeping in.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, but there was a time when yes we expected service that we paid for. Now we pay more and get less. For what you give up nowadays to give to your job and make enough to live decent, you should be coddled and offered the very best-not just the "best we got from that cheap azz foreign manufacturer".
Everything you said does make sense we just need to figure out how we got lulled away from that customer driven at every level service.

Regulations at the government level and unions have caused this to go upside down. That is why we get our shoes from China. And it's why you can't go to a store and try on American made shoes until you find the perfect pair. Nobody here can afford to give you that option.
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Old 02-19-2012, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing?

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Originally Posted by AzMike View Post
Everything you said does make sense we just need to figure out how we got lulled away from that customer driven at every level service.

Regulations at the government level and unions have caused this to go upside down. That is why we get our shoes from China. And it's why you can't go to a store and try on American made shoes until you find the perfect pair. Nobody here can afford to give you that option.
Listen, Az, regulations were in place since the 30s 40s and 50s. They were not instituted in the 80s or 90s. Our trade agreements and probably NAFTA have affected this more than anything. I will say in the 80s there was a rash of entrepreneurs who (many having come in as refugees) were more worldly in the Asian sense and knew where to get "X" product to fill "Y" demand.
But unions were starting to recede, never to be as strong again. And many regulations were eliminated and watered down.
It's almost like at the same time we cried out for American family values, people became more jaded than ever.
I dunno. Maybe the situation will self correct but I just wish the present and future generations would realize what they are worth.
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing?

in the 30's and 40's we did not live in a global market like we do today. In order to compete we need to competitive.

The steel industry is a great example. The unions drove up the price of our steel so high no one in the world wanted it, so other countries came along and filled the gap that we could no longer fill. The workers all got laid off and our steel industry today is just a shell of its former self.

Many of our corporations fell for the same reason. We no longer can compete in the garment industry because of cost. If companies can't make money they close it's that simple.
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Old 02-19-2012, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing?

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
in the 30's and 40's we did not live in a global market like we do today. In order to compete we need to competitive.

The steel industry is a great example. The unions drove up the price of our steel so high no one in the world wanted it, so other countries came along and filled the gap that we could no longer fill. The workers all got laid off and our steel industry today is just a shell of its former self.

Many of our corporations fell for the same reason. We no longer can compete in the garment industry because of cost. If companies can't make money they close it's that simple.
We did not need such a shock of global market without agreements in place that would greatly benefit America. I feel this was like giving away the farm.
And no steal was found cheaper over seas and the American steal was starting to run out at the easily obtainable levels (of ore). When the supply was there it was a great industry for union and boss.
I believe they have discovered some untapped ore recently (I came in in the middle of the broadcast) and we should promote that but yeah we have a good amt of copper and natural gas, and some things but I think we're pretty much tapped out in big iron and in oil easily accessible. Now we have to go pretty deep.
But we still have plenty of leather so I don't know why we don't make the best shoes in the world again.
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--Ron Paul
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:12 PM
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Post Re: Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
Now I see what you're getting at. What you're saying is that the gov't is offering a tax break that won't be taken advantage of and is simply posturing. I missed that part. You are right, if these tax breaks aren't good business decisions, then businesses won't take them. But if they aren't going to do any good, why offer them????
You are ASSUMING "if these tax breaks aren't good business decisions"...

You haven't spent one iota of effort to see if it is good business.
All you've done is make up a scenario where it would be bad, and assume it must be true.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:36 AM
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Default Re: Can Obama’s plan for ‘insourcing’ help revive U.S. manufacturing?

But before mfn and nafta etc. Signed into law by democrat clinton, were were doing ok, being able to afford products made here. We had tariffs for decades that protected manufacturing here. China has government policy of restricting imports to their country and so does south korea, (china first, korea first). 30 years ago these were very poor countries. Increasing manufacturing brought them into being major contenders and we regard China now as a military threat in the future. Their military build up courtesy of USA consumers. Tariffs like we used to have would level the playing field.


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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
Do you really think that businesses are going to raise thier expences without a comparable increase in price?? Who do you think is going to pay that increase?? Do you really think that no one will step in and fill the low price that they leave behind??


BTW - If you quote me, please do it in entirety. You quoted one small statement out of a brief but thorough description of the results ofthis action and then accused me of "limited thought". My post actualy addressed most of what you said, but you didn't include that part, choosing instead to only address a piece of what I said. That's called "intellectual dishonesty".
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