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The Constitution & The Judicial Branch Discuss Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by pjohns Is this an oblique reference to the mid-nineteenth century, when slavery was allowed in some states? ...

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2021, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Is this an oblique reference to the mid-nineteenth century, when slavery was allowed in some states?

Note: The Supreme Court was no better, given its decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford in 1857--in which, as Wikipedia notes, it ruled that "the United States Constitution was not meant to include American citizenship for people of African descent, regardless of whether they were enslaved or free, and so the rights and privileges that the Constitution confers upon American citizens could not apply to them."
Do you think the highest court would say that today about viable fetuses or fetuses that with one or two common neonatal or pre birth surgical procedures could thrive?
Press your case and find out. Let's fight for the unborn not mealy mouth and skip stones at it.
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Old 12-23-2021, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law

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Do you think the highest court would say that today about viable fetuses or fetuses that with one or two common neonatal or pre birth surgical procedures could thrive?
I was merely responding to your observation that "[s]tates are bad at deciding who's a citizen."

Why in the world should we trust the SCOTUS more than we trust the states, in 2021 (well, almost 2022), to arrive at a fair and just decision, as concerning citizenship?
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Old 12-23-2021, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Do you think the highest court would say that today about viable fetuses or fetuses that with one or two common neonatal or pre birth surgical procedures could thrive?
Press your case and find out. Let's fight for the unborn not mealy mouth and skip stones at it.
One of the biggest flaws in ROE V Wade, is the inability of that ruling to adjust to the advances of science and medicine.

After reading you witless comments, I am afraid to ask, but here goes.

(One) viability? what does that mean?
(Two) is life begun at conception or at your definition of viability?

,,,,and then your opinion on;;;;the big question,,,;
(Three) When does US citizenship begin?
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Old 12-23-2021, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I was merely responding to your observation that "[s]tates are bad at deciding who's a citizen."

Why in the world should we trust the SCOTUS more than we trust the states, in 2021 (well, almost 2022), to arrive at a fair and just decision, as concerning citizenship?
It isn't a contest at all. civics 101
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Old 12-23-2021, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law

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One of the biggest flaws in ROE V Wade, is the inability of that ruling to adjust to the advances of science and medicine.

After reading you witless comments, I am afraid to ask, but here goes.

(One) viability? what does that mean?
(Two) is life begun at conception or at your definition of viability?

,,,,and then your opinion on;;;;the big question,,,;
(Three) When does US citizenship begin?
1.viability = a potential to live.
2.all things going perfectly, my personal definition of viability is when there is an able male and an able female extant in the world.
3.at the age of majority for most things, but life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness begins when one is born inside the United States.
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Old 12-24-2021, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law

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It isn't a contest at all. civics 101
I would respond to this--but I am quite unsure as to what you actually mean.

Anyway, I will reiterate: I see no reason to believe that, nowadays, the SCOTUS is likely to be more fair and reasonable than the individual states are, as concerning the matter of citizenship.
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Old 12-24-2021, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law

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1.viability = a potential to live.
2.all things going perfectly, my personal definition of viability is when there is an able male and an able female extant in the world.
3.at the age of majority for most things, but life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness begins when one is born inside the United States.
And this definition is where you and I, and much of the nation, disagree.

First of all, you definition of viability via a male and female extant is either irrelevant or statutorily vague and confusing. It takes a male and female contribution to conceive a human child. Post conception, if Dad dies, or Mom, the child still has rights.

You say they have to be born. Then, pray tell us, what is their legal prebirth status? By your definition they have none what soever. Which is why many radical liberals feel Mom, or the State can end their life, right up until birth.


If each fetus is a unique individual human life form, where, in the post conception process, does that "citizen" have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

Without any Constitutional support, the SCOTUS has declared, they can determine that. Many say they are in error.

As for me, I'm not sure even the individual states can decide. But sans any written line in the original compact of 1789, the SCOTUS has nothing.
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Last edited by FrancSevin; 12-24-2021 at 03:31 PM..
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Old 12-25-2021, 10:29 AM
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Default Re: Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
One of the biggest flaws in ROE V Wade, is the inability of that ruling to adjust to the advances of science and medicine.

After reading you witless comments, I am afraid to ask, but here goes.

(One) viability? what does that mean?
(Two) is life begun at conception or at your definition of viability?

,,,,and then your opinion on;;;;the big question,,,;
(Three) When does US citizenship begin?
Setting aside the lunacy of penumbral rights that underpin Roe v Wade for the moment the tragedy of the decision is its classification of the unborn as subhuman. It's the same toxic formulation as Dredd Scott, some classification of people are deemed subhuman by imperial decree of the court. At least Dredd Scott didn't do away with the legal classification of freeman, former slaves who had purchased their freedom or been emancipated. Roe v Wade gives the unborn chance to appeal their death sentence, indeed the artificial construct of viability treats the unborn as subhuman whose death is trivialized into a matter of convenience.

States decide to allow or ban the death penalty for the most grave criminal offenses. But only after an extensive an extensive trial and appeals process with the state Governor having the authority to commute or pardon the execution. With abortion it's simply a trip to the abortion mill with even a sonogram showing an image of the unborn victim prohibited.
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Old 12-25-2021, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Setting aside the lunacy of penumbral rights that underpin Roe v Wade for the moment the tragedy of the decision is its classification of the unborn as subhuman. It's the same toxic formulation as Dredd Scott, some classification of people are deemed subhuman by imperial decree of the court. At least Dredd Scott didn't do away with the legal classification of freeman, former slaves who had purchased their freedom or been emancipated. Roe v Wade gives the unborn chance to appeal their death sentence, indeed the artificial construct of viability treats the unborn as subhuman whose death is trivialized into a matter of convenience.

States decide to allow or ban the death penalty for the most grave criminal offenses. But only after an extensive an extensive trial and appeals process with the state Governor having the authority to commute or pardon the execution. With abortion it's simply a trip to the abortion mill with even a sonogram showing an image of the unborn victim prohibited.
100% correct.

Roe V Wade IS a mirror image of Dredd Scott. And the result is abortion mills that profit from exploitation of the same population. Blacks and the poor.

The protection of our most vulnerable ignored, Margaret Sanger's wish to reduce the population of its "undesirables" fulfilled. A pine tree sprouting in a national park has more rights and protection of its life than a fetus in the womb of an American woman.
Somehow, I cannot accept that.

That life begins at conception is no longer an argument. It is, if I may say it, "Accepted Science." The argument is when that life has rights.
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Last edited by FrancSevin; 12-25-2021 at 11:42 AM..
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Old 12-26-2021, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Chief Justice John Roberts warns Supreme Court over Texas abortion law

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100% correct.

Roe V Wade IS a mirror image of Dredd Scott. And the result is abortion mills that profit from exploitation of the same population. Blacks and the poor.

The protection of our most vulnerable ignored, Margaret Sanger's wish to reduce the population of its "undesirables" fulfilled. A pine tree sprouting in a national park has more rights and protection of its life than a fetus in the womb of an American woman.
Somehow, I cannot accept that.

That life begins at conception is no longer an argument. It is, if I may say it, "Accepted Science." The argument is when that life has rights.
Well said.

The problem is when the right to life is decided at the whim of 5 SCOTUS justices, political appointees with lifetime tenure, it's no longer a right it's a privilege to be granted or withdrawn at the whim of the ruling junta. Masking this corruption of the most basic right as "viability" doesn't distract from what it is, an imperial court literally determining life or death with no due process or appeal for the victim.
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