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Old 02-20-2019, 02:32 PM
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Default The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car

The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car________
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On Wednesday, the Supreme Court unanimously ruled that itís unconstitutional for states to steal peopleís cars. Thatís a great step forward in cracking down on civil asset forfeiture and the practice of states and cities seizing personal property as a means to raise money.

The decision is a victory for Tyson Timbs, an Indiana man who had been fighting the state to get his $42,000 Land Rover SUV back after it was seized during his arrest. He had purchased the vehicle with the proceeds from an insurance policy he received after his fatherís death.

Nonetheless, the state thought that his guilty plea to selling a few hundred dollars in heroin to undercover police officers entitled them to the vehicle on the grounds that he had used it to transport drugs. As the Supreme Court explained, however, the forfeiture of the vehicle amounted to ďmore than four times the maximum $10,000 monetary fine assessable against Timbs for his drug conviction.Ē

That, by any measure, is excessive. So much so that it amounts to flat-out theft.

Indeed, no court disputed that seizing the vehicle amounted to an excessive fine. Instead, the Indiana Supreme Court justified the state's seizure of the vehicle on the grounds that Eighth Amendment protections against excessive fines did not apply to states.

The U.S. Supreme Court disagreed, ruling that Eighth Amendment protections, including the prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment, excessive bail, protections against excessive fines, and other government abuses, are all ďfundamental to our scheme of ordered libertyĒ and that states are bound to follow them under the Fourteenth Amendment.

There was, however, a slight disagreement over which part of the amendment is binding to states. The majority opinion, authored by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, relied on the Due Process Clause. Justices Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch agreed, but explained in concordances that they would have relied on the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment rather than Due Process.

All agreed, however, that protections against seizures of property that amounted to excessive fines had a long history. The court traced that history all the way back to the Magna Carta and, in the U.S., to the Virginia Declaration of Rights. The Eighth Amendment in the Bill of Rights is the modern incarnation of these centuries-old rights.

After all, itís impossible for any system that purports to protect rights and uphold justice to allow an arrest or conviction to become a license for the government to simply take whatever it wants from an individual
._MORE @LINK

I hope this also protects landlords and family owners of property from confiscation due to someone else doing the crime.
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car

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The Supreme Court unanimously says states can’t steal your car________
._MORE @LINK

I hope this also protects landlords and family owners of property from confiscation due to someone else doing the crime.
I will have to look and see what the verbiage reads... interestingly enough, will this apply to the Federal Government and IRS also?

Long story short, back in 1997, the IRS said I owed them $43. Yup, $43. I said I didn't and provided proof. This went back and forth over the span of 6 months. Their last tactic, was to threaten to levy MY HOUSE for the $43.

There are benefits to having a litigation Attorney for a cousin.

Again, I will have to do some reading.
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car

This is good news.Hopefully this will limit civil asset forfeiture.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:12 PM
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Post Re: The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car

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Originally Posted by saltwn
The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car________
It is long overdue that SCOTUS address this issue.
UNANIMOUS ruling too...


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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I will have to look and see what the verbiage reads... interestingly enough, will this apply to the Federal Government and IRS also?
Long story short, back in 1997, the IRS said I owed them $43. Yup, $43. I said I didn't and provided proof. This went back and forth over the span of 6 months. Their last tactic, was to threaten to levy MY HOUSE for the $43.
There are benefits to having a litigation Attorney for a cousin.
Again, I will have to do some reading.
The IRS application is an excellent question...

I hate to say it but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one though.
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car

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The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car________
No it does NOT!!!!!!...

In THIS ONE INSTANCE, the $42,000 Lexus was four times the amount of fines for the crimes in which the guy was convicted...Making it excessive...

In other words, if the guy was "transporting drugs" in a 1993 Ford Taurus...worth less than $5,000, it would've been COMPLETELY ACCEPTABLE to confiscate it and the Supreme Court would've ruled 9-0 in the opposite direction...
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:29 AM
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Default Re: The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car

Does this apply to post conviction seizures as well? If so, what becomes of the hundreds of millions seized from El Chapo?
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car

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No it does NOT!!!!!!...

In THIS ONE INSTANCE, the $42,000 Lexus was four times the amount of fines for the crimes in which the guy was convicted...Making it excessive...

In other words, if the guy was "transporting drugs" in a 1993 Ford Taurus...worth less than $5,000, it would've been COMPLETELY ACCEPTABLE to confiscate it and the Supreme Court would've ruled 9-0 in the opposite direction...
Correct. CAF needs to go. It violates the 4th, 5th, 14th, and probably a couple others.


But this case was about excessive fines and states rights. CAF is still in play.
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I will have to look and see what the verbiage reads... interestingly enough, will this apply to the Federal Government and IRS also?

Long story short, back in 1997, the IRS said I owed them $43. Yup, $43. I said I didn't and provided proof. This went back and forth over the span of 6 months. Their last tactic, was to threaten to levy MY HOUSE for the $43.

There are benefits to having a litigation Attorney for a cousin.

Again, I will have to do some reading.
no just states as there has long been a problem with this.
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But our job is to serve, not rule. ___
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car

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no just states as there has long been a problem with this.
The it needs to be expanded. Note my personal anecdote, which is 100% truth. $125,000 house (at that time), for $43. a assets worth over 2,906 times the amount owed.


Why isn't the IRS being held to the same standards???
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Old 02-21-2019, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: The Supreme Court unanimously says states canít steal your car

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
The it needs to be expanded. Note my personal anecdote, which is 100% truth. $125,000 house (at that time), for $43. a assets worth over 2,906 times the amount owed.


Why isn't the IRS being held to the same standards???
are you saying you owed back state taxes or irs?
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Itís as though they think being a member of Congress makes you intrinsically ďbetterĒ than a waitress.

But our job is to serve, not rule. ___
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