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The Constitution & The Judicial Branch Discuss Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway here are some questions to consider... when did the skyrocketing of insurance begin? what caused ...

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Old 12-16-2018, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

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Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
here are some questions to consider...
when did the skyrocketing of insurance begin?
what caused the skyrocketing to begin?
why had it not skyrocketed prior to the noted skyrocketing?

We noticed it about 5 years before he retired for the first time. the 90s I'd say. In fact the company my husband worked for kept researching and contracting with (if that's the proper term) new insurance companies to provide us with low cost and quality coverage. Finally they did the insurance themselves and saw that they could not keep it low either. The insurance lady over all that had something equivalent to a nervous breakdown ; she was so frazzled from the changes and the complaints and the changes in pricing of prescription drugs and other services.
I do know that in the eighties I noticed a lot of corporate by ups of small hospitals.
In the 70s insurance was fairly affordable but even then couldn't have a pre existing illness.
Also a lot of drugs went up every month. some co's were sued over it. my thyroid med co was one.
Also brand to generic (patenting) has been skewed to keep a drug on the market 10 years after it should have gone generic. that needs to be outlawed as fraud.
Its like when the Clintons lost their battle with insurance and pharma, the opposition took it a step further and really started jacking the price as if to say see here if you mess with us we'll really stick it to ya.

Last edited by saltwn; 12-16-2018 at 12:48 AM..
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Old 12-16-2018, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
The point is that there are many provisions of the ACA completely unrelated to that tax. There is no basis for invalidating the Medicaid expansion provisions, for example. That overreach will provide the basis for the Fifth Circuit reversal.
Gee, I have to explain severability to you. Many bills that become law contain language specifying severability, if one part of the law is held unconstitutional the remaining provisions remain in force. Obamacare has no such provision.

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An earlier version of the legislation, which passed the House last November, included severability language. But that clause did not make it into the Senate version, which ultimately became law. A Democratic aide who helped write the bill characterized the omission as an oversight.

Without such language, the Supreme Court, through its prior rulings, essentially requires judges to try to determine whether Congress would have enacted the rest of a law without the unconstitutional provisions.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/reason....-include-a/amp

Roberts opinion essentially rewriting the individual mandate as a tax, something the Obama administration never argued in court, foreclosed the option of judges throwing out the whole law. Even our mighty, infallible SCOTUS was terrified at the political ramifications of having the judiciary essentially order a do over for Obamacare. The march to socialized medicine must only proceed in one direction.
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Old 12-16-2018, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

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Gee, I have to explain severability to you. Many bills that become law contain language specifying severability, if one part of the law is held unconstitutional the remaining provisions remain in force. Obamacare has no such provision.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/reason....-include-a/amp

Roberts opinion essentially rewriting the individual mandate as a tax, something the Obama administration never argued in court, foreclosed the option of judges throwing out the whole law. Even our mighty, infallible SCOTUS was terrified at the political ramifications of having the judiciary essentially order a do over for Obamacare. The march to socialized medicine must only proceed in one direction.
Severability analysis is an exercise is determining Congressional intent. When Congress eliminated the individual mandate penalty in the 2017 tax bill, effectively rendering the individual mandate unenforceable, but leaving in place the rest of the ACA, their intent to allow the severance of the individual mandate from the rest of the ACA was obvious. To argue that they intended otherwise is to ignore what they actual did.
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

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they were already skyrocketing and set to go up further. a negotiation left the raises alone till a certain date. then so much percentage could only be spent administratively, the rest had to go on patient care/ doc/ meds etc.

This argument doesn't matter anyway, because we will eventually (sooner than we expect) get expanded medicare or something like it. ...... .


That's because the Insurance industry was lobbying Congress. The more members they owned, the better regs they received. And the industry became less competitive. All because the government got involved.

I must remember to thank you Salty, for continuing to prove my points.


So here ya go,; THANKS!

And BTW, expanded Medicare is a fungible description. But it is not single payer or universal health care. It is Insurance. Ask anyone who is on it.

IT SUCKS!!!!!!
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
Severability analysis is an exercise is determining Congressional intent. When Congress eliminated the individual mandate penalty in the 2017 tax bill, effectively rendering the individual mandate unenforceable, but leaving in place the rest of the ACA, their intent to allow the severance of the individual mandate from the rest of the ACA was obvious. To argue that they intended otherwise is to ignore what they actual did.
Earlier you claimed the "unrelated" portions of Obamacare ought to be safe because they were unrelated. Now, it shifts to your opinion of legislative intent.

Obama supporters cheered when the SCOTUS rewrote the individual mandate as a tax. But now when a court ruling goes against the sacred law of Obamacare it's "invalid" . It can't be both ways.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

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Earlier you claimed the "unrelated" portions of Obamacare ought to be safe because they were unrelated. Now, it shifts to your opinion of legislative intent.

Obama supporters cheered when the SCOTUS rewrote the individual mandate as a tax. But now when a court ruling goes against the sacred law of Obamacare it's "invalid" . It can't be both ways.
The remainder of the ACA is not invalidated because Congress made clear in the 2017 tax bill that it did not view the rest of the legislation as contingent on or tied to the individual mandate penalty. Whether you choose to refer to that as Congress intending that the rest of the bill not be considered functionally related to the penalty or severable from the penalty, it’s basically the same argument.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

Blah-blah-blah, blah-blah! Obamacare is on its way out. May it rest in pieces, and good riddance.
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Old 12-16-2018, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
[I am] pretty much [suggesting that healthcare in America, pre-ObamaCare, was...well, just plain evil].
I see.

You would really prefer, then, the European model?
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Old 12-17-2018, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

Once this ruling gets through the appeals process and ultimately through the SCOTUS, hopefully the ruling will stand and the ACA will die the death that it should die.

Once that happens, we need to keep our elected officials from wanting to repeat that silly mistake. I heard Trump a couple of days ago saying that he wants to work with Congress to replace Obamacare and give Americans great insurance.

STOP!! I don't want the government to give me "great insurance" or any insurance for that matter. GET OUT OF MY HEALTHCARE!
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
The remainder of the ACA is not invalidated because Congress made clear in the 2017 tax bill that it did not view the rest of the legislation as contingent on or tied to the individual mandate penalty. Whether you choose to refer to that as Congress intending that the rest of the bill not be considered functionally related to the penalty or severable from the penalty, it’s basically the same argument.
Congress shows its intent by including or in this case dropping severability language from the law. Democrat Harry Reid executed a series of back room maneuvers to shield the Obamacare bill drafted in secret by his office from normal order. Nancy Pelosi did likewise in the House going so far as to create a second bill with changes to the Senate bill so as to subvert the conference process. Democrats then muscled Obamacare through on a straight party line vote. Through all that Democrat partisan chicanery no severability language was included in the 2,700 page law.

It defies credulity to claim that Congress inferred severability when no such language was included in the law nor has it been amended to include it. Given the cheering by Resistance zealots every time a forum shopped Federal district judge issues a nation wide injunction second guessing President Trump, it is the height of hypocrisy to condemn a Federal judge on the basis of imagined Congressional intent. Progressives are all in favor of an overreaching Federal judiciary implementing their agenda but when a decision goes against their "interpretation" of intent well, it's OK to undermine the rule of law by challenging it.
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