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The Constitution & The Judicial Branch Discuss Can a Presidential pardon be undone? at the Political Forums; I have been thinking of thinking of this since the board was talking about a pardon for her. I looked ...

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Old 03-21-2016, 10:24 AM
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Default Can a Presidential pardon be undone?

I have been thinking of thinking of this since the board was talking about a pardon for her. I looked up the power the president has to issue a pardon, and it states that it is a private matter between him/her and the accused. It also says he may issue a pardon to someone who is only accused of a crime, but no where does it state one way or another if it could be overturned.

I would assume that since the person who is only accused of a crime like Hillary is at this point, and not convicted in a court of law, the pardon could be overturned without double jeopardy being attached.

What do you think?
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Old 03-21-2016, 10:30 AM
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Default Re: Can a Presidential pardon be undone?

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
the pardon could be overturned without double jeopardy being attached.

What do you think?
Overturned by who?
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Old 03-21-2016, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: Can a Presidential pardon be undone?

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Overturned by who?
By the next president, or the courts, or congress?
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Old 03-21-2016, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Can a Presidential pardon be undone?

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
I have been thinking of thinking of this since the board was talking about a pardon for her. I looked up the power the president has to issue a pardon, and it states that it is a private matter between him/her and the accused. It also says he may issue a pardon to someone who is only accused of a crime, but no where does it state one way or another if it could be overturned.

I would assume that since the person who is only accused of a crime like Hillary is at this point, and not convicted in a court of law, the pardon could be overturned without double jeopardy being attached.

What do you think?
A pardon for who?

Quote:
A pardon can be revoked by the officer or body granting it before delivery and acceptance[v]. However, after its delivery and acceptance, a pardon cannot be revoked for any cause. This is because then it has passed beyond the control of the officer or body granting it, and has become a valid and operative act. Its recipient can be deprived of its benefits only through some appropriate legal proceeding.

- See more at: Issuance and Revocation of Pardon - Pardon and Parole
So basically, once granted and accepted by the person a pardon can not be revoked for any reason (including fraud in obtaining the pardon). If we're referring to a presidential pardon there are no legal proceedings that can deprive the recepient of the benefits of the pardon. Not even the US Supreme Court has that authority. They would have to be convicted of another offense unrelated to the pardon.
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Old 03-21-2016, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Can a Presidential pardon be undone?

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A pardon for who?



So basically, once granted and accepted by the person a pardon can not be revoked for any reason (including fraud in obtaining the pardon). If we're referring to a presidential pardon there are no legal proceedings that can deprive the recepient of the benefits of the pardon. Not even the US Supreme Court has that authority. They would have to be convicted of another offense unrelated to the pardon.
I found this interesting from your link.......

Quote:
The writing should be subscribed by the executive who grants the pardon because it is an official action of the executive. The pardon will be valid only if it is attested and authenticated by the seal of the state. The offense intended to be forgiven should be described in detail. However, even if a pardon provides incorrect details of a crime of which the offender was accused or convicted, it will be an effective pardon.
So if obama were to pardon Hillary, he would have to describe her crime in detail for which he was pardoning her. That in itself would make it almost impossible for Hillary to say she was innocent of crimes she committed while SoS. In that case I doubt obama would issue a pardon to her.
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Old 03-21-2016, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Can a Presidential pardon be undone?

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
I found this interesting from your link.......



So if obama were to pardon Hillary, he would have to describe her crime in detail for which he was pardoning her. That in itself would make it almost impossible for Hillary to say she was innocent of crimes she committed while SoS. In that case I doubt obama would issue a pardon to her.
A very good point but, it will only matter to people who care about having any kind of integrity in the Government.
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Old 03-21-2016, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Can a Presidential pardon be undone?

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
I found this interesting from your link.......



So if obama were to pardon Hillary, he would have to describe her crime in detail for which he was pardoning her. That in itself would make it almost impossible for Hillary to say she was innocent of crimes she committed while SoS. In that case I doubt obama would issue a pardon to her.
Obama would only issue a pardon in the unlikely event Hillary was indicted. It would be justified on the grounds of protecting her from political persecution. Feel sorry for Hillary because she is an oppressed woman.
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Old 03-21-2016, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: Can a Presidential pardon be undone?

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
So if obama were to pardon Hillary, he would have to describe her crime in detail for which he was pardoning her.
False...

From the paragraph you responded to...

Quote:
The offense intended to be forgiven should be described in detail
"should" does not equal "must"...

From the link I provided in a different thread...

Quote:
While pre-emptive pardons remain very rare, there are a few notable exceptions. Perhaps the most famous presidential pardon of all time occurred before any charges were filed. Gerald Ford's pardon of Richard Nixon absolved the former president of "all offenses against the United States which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in" between the date of his inauguration in 1969 and his resignation in August 1974.
No specifics were give..."all offenses" covers all bases, and Obama could do the very same...Nothing specific...
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Old 03-21-2016, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Can a Presidential pardon be undone?

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
False...

From the paragraph you responded to...

"should" does not equal "must"...

From the link I provided in a different thread.

No specifics were give..."all offenses" covers all bases, and Obama could do the very same...Nothing specific...
That's scary.
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Old 03-21-2016, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: Can a Presidential pardon be undone?

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That's scary.
Here's something even scarier...

it would be a conspiracy theory to believe this ever happened (I don't), but if would be PERFECTLY LEGAL for a president to plan a crime with someone, and then pardon them for that crime later on...

My guess would that it would have to happen near the end of a term because, if connected, the president would put him(her)self in jeopardy, but it CAN be done...

President X - "Hey Person-outside-of-my-administration...Go do this crime and if you get caught, we've never had this discussion, and I'll pardon you right before I leave."...

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