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The Constitution & The Judicial Branch Discuss Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Court ov at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by AZRWinger No, Lerner's abuse of her position in the IRS ought to ruin her life. Lois Lerner, ...

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Old 08-08-2015, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Cour

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
No, Lerner's abuse of her position in the IRS ought to ruin her life.
Lois Lerner, a Bush adminstration appointee, hasn't worked for the IRS for over two years. Isn't it about time that the Republican leave her alone? Remember that she's the one that rejected the BOLO lists that used terms like "tea party" as criteria for additional scrutiny by the Exempt Organizations department of the IRS.
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Old 08-09-2015, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Cour

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Lois Lerner, a Bush adminstration appointee, hasn't worked for the IRS for over two years. Isn't it about time that the Republican leave her alone? Remember that she's the one that rejected the BOLO lists that used terms like "tea party" as criteria for additional scrutiny by the Exempt Organizations department of the IRS.
So the model for a Federal bureaucrat is assert 5th amendment rights before Congress as they exercise their oversight responsibility. Then, have the bureacracy lie about missing emails. If the evidence can be withheld for 2 years then it means she is innocent.
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Cour

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
So the model for a Federal bureaucrat is assert 5th amendment rights before Congress as they exercise their oversight responsibility. Then, have the bureacracy lie about missing emails. If the evidence can be withheld for 2 years then it means she is innocent.
Yes, I support the right of every person to 5th Amendment protections. Don't you?

Lerner has agreed waive those 5th Amendment protections and to answer any questions by the committee in exchange for an immunity agreement. Sounds fair to me if the purpose of the committee is to actually find out the truth but I doubt that's really the case.

Obviously Lerner knows nothing about alleged missing emails as she does not have any access to her former government email account and hasn't had access for two years.

No one has established that the DOJ or IRS is lying about missing emails. That's an unsupported allegation by Republicans.
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Old 08-10-2015, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Cour

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Yes, I support the right of every person to 5th Amendment protections. Don't you?
I do. I would have said, "I invoke the Fifth Amendment on the grounds anything I say might tend to incriminate me." And then I would have put a cork in my mouth instead of first having spouted off some silly crap like she did.
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Old 08-17-2015, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Cour

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I do. I would have said, "I invoke the Fifth Amendment on the grounds anything I say might tend to incriminate me." And then I would have put a cork in my mouth instead of first having spouted off some silly crap like she did.
I didn't read the transcript of exactly what she said and only knew she invoked the 5th Amendment.

Once again if the House is conducting a fact finding investigation they would grant immunity in exchange for full disclosure. If they're just on a witch hunt then obviously they wouldn't.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Cour

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Yes, I support the right of every person to 5th Amendment protections. Don't you?

Lerner has agreed waive those 5th Amendment protections and to answer any questions by the committee in exchange for an immunity agreement. Sounds fair to me if the purpose of the committee is to actually find out the truth but I doubt that's really the case.

Obviously Lerner knows nothing about alleged missing emails as she does not have any access to her former government email account and hasn't had access for two years.

No one has established that the DOJ or IRS is lying about missing emails. That's an unsupported allegation by Republicans.
Of course I support 5th amendment rights it is a silly question. But the 5th amendment doesn't immunize her from either punishment for breaking the rules as a public employee, something she apologized for doing, nor from criminal prosecution. In fact the House sent a contempt citation referral to Obama's DOJ which ignored it for partisan political reasons, Obama had already declared there was no corruption in the IRS so that made the DOJ incurious.

Lois Lerner has made no proffer of what evidence she could provide with a grant of immunity so simply blindly granting her immunity as a prerequisite to finding the truth is pure foolishness. All it would do is facilitate her continued lying and destroy any prosecution of her partners in crime.

Lois Lerner is not responsible for the lies that he emails had been destroyed, at minimum Director Koskenen is. The IRS never bothered to ask if the company they hired to archive back ups had a copy of the emails, the director simply told Congress the emails were lost due to an "unfortunate" string of computer crashes.
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Cour

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I didn't read the transcript of exactly what she said and only knew she invoked the 5th Amendment.

Once again if the House is conducting a fact finding investigation they would grant immunity in exchange for full disclosure. If they're just on a witch hunt then obviously they wouldn't.
Part of the legal argument is that LL pleaded the 5th then went on with her testimony as if she had not pleaded. You can't make statements then claim that you do not have to explain since you have pled the 5th. Or to put it another way you can't refuse to answer, then answer.

Why is it a given that if you are talking to a criminal that you must give them immunity? If you are looking to establish guilt or innocence, then you would not do that. Very seldom is immunity given to the suspect.

Call that a witch hunt if you will, but sometimes the witch is guilty. That's what fact finding missions are attempting to establish.
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Old 08-17-2015, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Cour

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Part of the legal argument is that LL pleaded the 5th then went on with her testimony as if she had not pleaded. You can't make statements then claim that you do not have to explain since you have pled the 5th. Or to put it another way you can't refuse to answer, then answer.

Why is it a given that if you are talking to a criminal that you must give them immunity? If you are looking to establish guilt or innocence, then you would not do that. Very seldom is immunity given to the suspect.

Call that a witch hunt if you will, but sometimes the witch is guilty. That's what fact finding missions are attempting to establish.
Well, you must remember, the obama and Hillary defenders go by the motto, "you can't investigate until you prove a crime was committed."
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Old 08-17-2015, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Cour

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Part of the legal argument is that LL pleaded the 5th then went on with her testimony as if she had not pleaded. You can't make statements then claim that you do not have to explain since you have pled the 5th. Or to put it another way you can't refuse to answer, then answer.

Why is it a given that if you are talking to a criminal that you must give them immunity? If you are looking to establish guilt or innocence, then you would not do that. Very seldom is immunity given to the suspect.

Call that a witch hunt if you will, but sometimes the witch is guilty. That's what fact finding missions are attempting to establish.
It is not assumed that a person exercising their 5th Amendment rights is guilty of anything.

Either the DOJ or a special prosecutor is required to investigate criminal activities. This is not a role of Congress that has no authority related to criminal prosecutions.
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Old 08-17-2015, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Federal Judge Threatens To Hold IRS Commissioner, DOJ Lawyers in Contempt of Cour

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Well, you must remember, the obama and Hillary defenders go by the motto, "you can't investigate until you prove a crime was committed."
I'm not really either but if criminal conduct is suspecfed then Congress should call on the DOJ or authorize a special prosecutor to conduct the investigation and prosecute if the evidence supports a criminal indictment. Congress does not have prosecutorial powers and it's not even a court that can reach determinations of criminal actions by a person. Hell, the proceedings in Congress don't even have to meet the minimum standards required by a court of law.

Fact finding and criminal investigations are two unrelated types of investigation.
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