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The Constitution & The Judicial Branch Discuss Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed at the Political Forums; Judge Bates ordered documents to be categorized using Vaughn Index but he is also saying "no FOIA for you" until ...

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Old 07-20-2014, 11:25 PM
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Default Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed

Judge Bates ordered documents to be categorized using Vaughn Index but he is also saying "no FOIA for you" until the House vs Holder case is settled. I'm not familiar with this website and as you can see they use DOD instead of DOJ. My read is that JW can't do an end run and get documents that the OC can't get. Better information will probably be available in the next few days.

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Withheld Fast & Furious Papers to Be Indexed
By RYAN ABBOTT
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WASHINGTON (CN) - After shielding records on Fast and Furious, the bungled operation that let smugglers walk guns into Mexico so that agents could try and track them to the cartels, the Justice Department must explain what it withheld, a federal judge ruled Friday.
Judicial Watch, a government watchdog, sued the DOJ after the Obama administration claimed executive privilege in denying the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee's request for the same documents related to a congressional investigation into the operation.
Though Judicial Watch's complaint was stayed pending resolution of the House's pre-existing claims, U.S. District Judge John Bates found Friday that the House's lawsuit had advanced enough for proceedings in Judicial Watch's case to continue.
"This court now concludes that this case may proceed without interfering with House Committee or upsetting the delicate balance of power between the branches," Bates wrote. "To fully resolve this FOIA dispute, absent any settlement, the court will have to determine many issues logically antecedent to any constitutional question. That is because House Committee and this case are in very difference procedural postures."
Bates also ordered the DOD to index its redacted and withheld information in the form of a Vaughn index.
DoD need not release any records, however, until the House's case is resolved.
The Fast and Furious program was executed by the Phoenix field office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. AFT agents knowingly allowed firearms purchased illegally in the United States to be unlawfully transferred to third-parties and transported into Mexico in hopes that the guns would lead ATF agents to the cartel leaders who purchased them.
The mission fell apart, however, after agents lost track of thousands of guns, some which turned up at the scene of the 2010 firefight in Arizona that resulted in the death of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry .
Faced with an investigation by Congress, the Justice Department initially sent a letter to the committee denying that guns had been allowed to walk across the border. It later informed Congress that the letter was incorrect.

When asked to produce records as to why the Department had made the denial, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder released some documents, but withheld others under executive privilege, claiming that disclosure would reveal the agency's deliberative processes.
Judicial Watch's complaint came after the Justice Department's denial of the committee's request.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed

Shlt!, I thought you were talking about the movies.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed

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Shlt!, I thought you were talking about the movies.
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Sh*t!...We've had enough of your "I don't like this thread so I'll destroy it" routine so we're giving you a four day involuntary vacation!...

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Old 08-06-2014, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed

Judge Bates says the Vaughn Index is to be completed by Oct. 1. Wouldn't this compel the DOJ to release documents clearly uncovered by the disputed executive privilege?
This is how stonewalling works and Holder may be one of the best. That's his legacy.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed

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Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
Judge Bates says the Vaughn Index is to be completed by Oct. 1. Wouldn't this compel the DOJ to release documents clearly uncovered by the disputed executive privilege?
This is how stonewalling works and Holder may be one of the best. That's his legacy.
I suspect that we will soon be hearing that some of the documents were "accidentally" destroyed, or that the hard drives crashed.
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Old 08-06-2014, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed

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I suspect that we will soon be hearing that some of the documents were "accidentally" destroyed, or that the hard drives crashed.
That ma well happen. But aside from all the smoke and mirror deceit of Whashington DC, several people are still dead, the result of F&F guns.

Can we not ever get serious about that?

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government that insists on regulating firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens, but has no guilt about handing them easily to known crimminals.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
I suspect that we will soon be hearing that some of the documents were "accidentally" destroyed, or that the hard drives crashed.
I guess it's never too late for the hard drive crash revelation.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
That ma well happen. But aside from all the smoke and mirror deceit of Whashington DC, several people are still dead, the result of F&F guns.

Can we not ever get serious about that?

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government that insists on regulating firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens, but has no guilt about handing them easily to known crimminals.
There are at least several hundred dead because of the F&F scheme and the count goes up. Bill Newell testified that it was a "prolific firearms trafficking network". Of course it was because he helped create it.
I believe some of the FOIA documents include Kevin O'Reilly communications.
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed

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WASHINGTON (CN) - After shielding records on Fast and Furious, the bungled operation that let smugglers walk guns into Mexico so that agents could try and track them to the cartels, the Justice Department must explain what it withheld, a federal judge ruled Friday.
Sounds like judicial oversight is working just like it's supposed to in this case.

Of course Fast and Furious was a follow-on of Operation Gunrunner that actually lost a higher percentage of firearms to the Mexican Cartels (although it dealt with a smaller overall number of firearms).

The simply fact is that both Operation Gunrunner and Fast and Furious were horrible operations that never should have been allowed to happen. Both also relate to the War on Drugs that has been a complete disaster as it has created violent crime in both the US and foreign countries.

It is time to end the War on Drugs and end violence associated with the black market in drugs. We tend to address the symptoms of problems, like Operation Gunrunner and Fast and Furious, as opposed to addressing the real problem that is our drug prohibition laws that create the crime and the violence. Prohibition didn't work for alcohol and resulted in violent crime and prohibition isn't working with drugs as it results in violent crime.

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We need to stop the insanity.
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: Withheld Fast and Furious Papers to be indexed

Good perspective from John Hayward concerning Judge Bates' decision and significance of Vaughn Index.

DOJ ordered to release list of Fast & Furious documents Obama protected with executive privilege | Human Events


"Judicial Watch has been using the Freedom of Information Act to demand access to the hidden documents, but the Justice Department stymied the request by claiming it would interfere with their ongoing court battle against the House of Representatives. (In other words: the public can’t see these documents because that would interfere with our legal effort to prevent Congress from seeing these documents!) "

............

It seems like Judge Bates decision is pushing the foot dragging Amy B. Jackson to rule on executive privilege now that the Vaughn index is due on Oct. 1.
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