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The Constitution & The Judicial Branch Discuss Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by faithful_servant Pay attention!!! This is about killing AMERICAN CITIZENS WITHOUT OUR CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT TO A FAIR ...

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Old 02-06-2013, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
Pay attention!!! This is about killing AMERICAN CITIZENS WITHOUT OUR CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL. I'm all in favor of lowering the body temp. of terrorists to about 68F, but when you start killing AMERICAN CITIZENS WITHOUT OUR CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL, you just crossed a line that should never be crossed. Yeah, it sucks that there are Americans out there that want to harm this country, but until they are tried in a court of law or have proven themselves to be an active, present and immediate threat, you don't kill them until they have had a trial.
You are in favor of a delusion that refuses to admit to the deaths caused by torture. In otherwords - a hypocritic morality based on double standards.

I oppose BOTH and I don't give who the constitution covers. It's wrong. Period.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
You'll have to put up a link to show that people died because of enhanced interrogation.

Oh, and please use a legit news site, not a lefty site that only has accusations and no facts.
You mean like Breitbart? Oh...wait...that's a righty site that only has accusations and no facts.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
No even close...

Here are the three main differences...

1) As I even stated myself recently, I ENDORSE the plan...

The problem is the unilateral decision-making with no congressional oversight...

With the enhanced interrogation, there were Congressweasels that knew about it...for YEARS...and kept their traps shut...

...until it was leaked...Then they did a 180 and jumped on the "How dare he!" train...

Intelligence Report: Pelosi Briefed on Use of Interrogation Tactics in Sept. ’02

Congress Knew About the Interrogations

Top legislators knew of interrogations

Where are the briefings to Congress on Obama's Kill List?...

Answer...There aren't any...Obama is doing this all on his own with NO checks and balances whatsoever...



2) As usual, the MEDIA is shielding Obama instead of doing their "Head on a platter" routine with Bush...

I admire YOUR denouncement, but you are an island in a sea of Liberals that are either yawning and defending, or not liking it but showing NO outrage and frothing as they did just a few short years ago when Bush was doing something far less intrusive and invasive then...you know...targeted killing...

This headline from the New York Times...just yesterday...says it all about the Liberal Bias and the comparison between Bush's enhanced interrogation and Obama's drone strikes...

Drone Strikes’ Dangers to Get Rare Moment in Public Eye

Got that???..."Rare Moment in Public Eye"????...

Remember those "rare moments" for the enhanced interrogation???...Of course you don't...It was a DAILY FEATURE!!!!...

But Obama?...Oh, that stuff just surfaces from time to time...We'll report it when we HAVE to and not when we WANT to...shhhhhh!...



3) Go look up the number of attempts and (even successful) decisions passed by international tribunals convicting Bush of "war crimes" because of enhanced interrogation...

Bush, Cheney, etc. Convicted of War Crimes by Malasyian NGO

George W. Bush Cans Swiss Trip as Groups Promise Prosecution for War Crimes

Bush War Crimes: The Nuremburg Precedent

Special Prosecutor for Bush war Crimes

Will this be done with Obama, too?...

Of course not!...

Obama has special dispensation and will NEVER be held to same standards...He is above us mere serfs and questioning authority is a moral felony...



So, overall, the answer to your question is NOT correct...

The Right is NOT frothing over this...They simply see the standard operating procedure and recognize the blatant hypocrisy of the Left of attacking their political opponent(s) while either display low-key grumbling, are complicitly silent, or outright defending "their guy"...
The lack of checks and balances and oversight is precisely what upsets me about this and it was inherent in the "enhanced interrogation" though we will never know the full extent due to destroyed material. There is NO difference other than the differences that time has provided. This was just leaked and it remains to be seen what hearings will be called and what will come of it. Assuming congress can get it's thumb out of it's ass and pursue this in a non-partisan manner - something of which I have grave doubts of from either side.

The irony will be this: will liberals who denounced torture denounce this? will conservatives who applauded torture applaud this?

I am sure we will see major hypocrisy.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

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You mean like Breitbart? Oh...wait...that's a righty site that only has accusations and no facts.
didn't think you would.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

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You are in favor of a delusion that refuses to admit to the deaths caused by torture. In otherwords - a hypocritic morality based on double standards.

I oppose BOTH and I don't give who the constitution covers. It's wrong. Period.
No, I'm just looking at what our Constitution defines as the rights of American citizens. I fully understand that there times when people need to be killed, but if they are American citizens, then there is a clearly defined process for going about that. If they are foreign citizens who have been defined as being citizens of nations that we are at war with, then they fall into the category of being an enemy who gets killed on sight, unless they surrender. If they are foreign citizens of nations that we are not at war with, then the lines start getting fuzzy about whether or not we should be allowed to kill them. You want to ignore these differences and say that they all fall into the same category, when the plain and simple truth is that they most certainly DO NOT.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

FYI fact check POST:

Someone was asking about proof of deaths by torture or interrogation.
It's not a left right right issue folks it's a state against the people issue

during the Bush/Obama reign we've had plenty of death in custody and then outright murder assassinations.

Various groups have acquired DOD records that do show that at least 12 people died under "harsh interrogation" and more than that in custody in Afghanistan and Iraq. the Pravda like MSM doesn't like to make some news like that to public ,especially when they've got a juicy Kim Kardasin story to run instead. What's Kim doing toDAY baby?

anyway...
7. US Operatives Torture Detainees to Death in Afghanistan and Iraq - Project Censored | Project Censored
heres an except from 1
Quote:
Final Autopsy Report: DOD 003164, (Detainee) Died as a result of asphyxia (lack of oxygen to the brain) due to strangulation as evidenced by the recently fractured hyoid bone in the neck and soft tissue hemorrhage extending downward to the level of the right thyroid cartilage. Autopsy revealed bone fracture, rib fractures, contusions in mid abdomen, back and buttocks extending to the left flank, abrasions, lateral buttocks. Contusions, back of legs and knees; abrasions on knees, left fingers and encircling to left wrist. Lacerations and superficial cuts, right 4th and 5th fingers. Also, blunt force injuries, predominately recent contusions (bruises) on the torso and lower extremities. Abrasions on left wrist are consistent with use of restraints. No evidence of defense injuries or natural disease. Manner of death is homicide. Whitehorse Detainment Facility, Nasiriyah, Iraq.”...
link to original DOD autopsy report here
stories and links to other officail DOD and CIA FIAOed reports below
10/24/2005 - Autopsies and Death reports reveal deaths of detainees in U.S. custody
U.S. Operatives Killed Detainees During Interrogations in Afghanistan and Iraq | American Civil Liberties Union

7. US Operatives Torture Detainees to Death in Afghanistan and Iraq - Project Censored | Project Censored

5/14/2008 - ACLU Obtains Defense Department Documents About Prisoner Deaths And Interrogations
Documents Released by the ACLU on 5/14/2008 | American Civil Liberties Union

2/12/2009 - Deaths at Bagram Followed Abusive Behavior During and Following Interrogation
CID Documents

3/11/2010 - CIA Releases 5 Heavily Redacted Documents Relating to Detainee Deaths
Detainee Deaths FOIA?CIA documents released March 11, 2011 | American Civil Liberties Union

American Civil Liberties Union, Accountability for Torture, Restore the Rule of Law, Enhanced Interrogation Techniques, Waterboard


U.S. Interrogators May Have Killed Dozens of Detainees - YouTube


At gitmo a few deaths were labeled "suicide" but the autopsies don't make sense. and an Army Staff Sergeant Joseph Hickman stationed there says he's convinced they were accidentally killed during torture interrogations.
http://harpers.org/blog/2011/11/dryb...at-guantanamo/
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

A conspiracy site Mr. Wonder? I went there and tried to find anything on the internet about Jensen and Phillips but there is nothing other than what is written on the site. I also noticed some of the contributors and saw Noam Chomsky. I can't take this site seriously, sorry.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

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A conspiracy site Mr. Wonder? I went there and tried to find anything on the internet about Jensen and Phillips but there is nothing other than what is written on the site. I also noticed some of the contributors and saw Noam Chomsky. I can't take this site seriously, sorry.

did look at the DOD docs Liberty?

And 'Project Censored' is not a conspiracy site man. get a grip. they are mainly a NewsMedia repeater like drudge.
And it's NOT the source of the story even, just a messenger. And not the only source i give, if you notice

The story is based on FOIA docs FROM the gov't. source docs and records. DOD autopsy reports.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans


that's page one of just ONE report.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

There is an intelligence committee hearing going on right now

Live Video - C-SPAN | C-SPAN

(they had to remove protesters first)
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