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Conspiracy Theories Discuss Who Started the Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory? at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by GetAClue Is this a serious question or are you just trying to get a rise out of ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2019, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Who Started the Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory?

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Is this a serious question or are you just trying to get a rise out of everyone?
It's serious...
and I suspected it would get a rise but hoped it would be seriously considered as well.
And not simply get complete and emotional dismissal from everyone.
but it is what it is.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:03 AM
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Default Re: Who Started the Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory?

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
It's serious...
and I suspected it would get a rise but hoped it would be seriously considered as well.
And not simply get complete and emotional dismissal from everyone.
but it is what it is.
What you are dismissing is the fact that these two buildings were engineered quite differently than most high rise structures. In other buildings, the internal steel beam structure is like a skeleton holding up the exterior of the building thereby giving the building it strength from the internal steel beam structure. This is why when a B-25 hit the Empire State building in the 1930's or 1940's, it resulted in some damage to a few floors near the site of the impact, but did not jeopardize the entire structure.

In the case of the Twin Towers, the EXTERNAL steel structure was carrying the load of the building (along with a middle steel structure that encased the mechanical's of the building such as elevators, etc.) The external of the building was connected to the internal steel structure with steel trusses on which the concrete floors were poured. This design was to allow for a vast open floor plan to allow tenants to configure their space any way they saw fit.

The problem with this design was that it depended upon both the External steel along with the trusses to maintain integrity of the entire structure by connecting the external structure to the internal core structure providing rigidity to the entire building. And contrary to what most people think of when they think of structural steel, the steel trusses where NOT large steel beams, but lighter steel rod attached to flat steel to form a lightweight, but strong component that would substitute for large steel beams. This was done to save money, weight and space as they would not require as much room between floors as large steel beams.

When the planes hit the buildings, you can notice that the terrorists lifted one wing higher than the other. This was done to impact as many floors as they could. By doing so this did 2 very important things that caused the collapse. First it severely damaged the external steel structure thus requiring the load of the upper floors to be carried by the remaining external structure. But to your point, it also allowed for many more floor trusses to be exposed to excessive heat and stress.

When the trusses were heated, they lost some of the structural strength and began to sag due to the weight of the concrete and other materials directly on top of them. When they began to sag, they pulled the outside structure inward at which point the outside structure then lost its ability to carry the increased weight load from the upper floors resulting in the collapse.

If you still have problems believing this, you may want to familiarize yourself with building techniques and materials. The steel trusses used in the WTC, are commonly used in many large steel structures with large, open areas covered by flat roofs or upper floors. Take a look sometime and see how lightweight these components are and you then may realize how much some intense heat, even for a short period of time, could affect their ability to perform their intended function.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Who Started the Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory?

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
The moon landing and space flight is on solid ground.
But there's only ONE bit of the "no moon landing conspiracy" assertions that's compelling or confusing to me.

it's Van Allen Belt radiation problem.
I haven't seen a really solid debunking of the problem of men traveling through it and unshielded space without serious radiation problems.

Even airline pilots, flight attendants and frequent flyers have to be careful about general exposure to radiation from simply airline flight well under the protection of the earths magnetic field.
the amount of cosmic and solar radiation that would hit a body in and beyond in the Van Alan belt, would seem to me, to be extremely high.

the standard reply i've seen is that
1. they chose/avoided times where solar activity was high.
2. they went though the Van Allen belts very fast so not much time for exposure
3. while there they didn't get very high exposure.
4. the capsules had good shielding
so no worries.

Ok cool that sounds pretty good ,my problem is this, Usually at the beginning of the explanation there's the admission that the earth magnetic field protects us from extremely dangerous UV rays/radiation/cosmic rays/solar radiation, and if the magnetic field were not there all life on earth would die in short order.

OK So how is that the astronauts could survive OUTSIDE of the earths magnetic field for 5 to 12 days strait and go though the Van Alan Belts twice on each trip but suffer no problems? Except the odd "flashes" of light from cosmic radiation .

Are the dangers exaggerated? Was the shielding THAT effective?
if so why not use it on airlines to reduce their exposure since they have the MOST radiation exposed jobs in the world.
But this also comes to mind, they had little windows in the capsules, was there shielding there too?
And what about the space suits, are they that great at keeping out all this deadly radiation, with the glass face mask during long moon walks, space walks, and car rides?

hmm, maybe so, but frankly the explanations seem a bit strained.
5 to 12 days of continuous exposure to even low levels of multiple forms of radiation would seem to me to be a problem.
Would anyone expect get exposed to an X-Ray for 30-minutes, 3-hours... 24-hours strait without some health concerns?
Maybe I'm missing something, but IMO i haven't seen it explained away completely... so far.

I take it as a matter of history that we did go to moon, but that aspect of it does cause me to question what the details of the story are there.
https://www.popsci.com/blog-network/...n-allen-belts/
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2019, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Who Started the Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory?

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
yep pretty much the same info i menetioned.
"...1. they chose/avoided times where solar activity was high.
2. they went though the Van Allen belts very fast so not much time for exposure
3. while there they didn't get very high exposure.
4. the capsules had good shielding
so no worries."...
but the unanswered part my question still stands.
...my problem is this, Usually at the beginning of the explanation there's the admission that the earth magnetic field protects us from extremely dangerous UV rays/radiation/cosmic rays/solar radiation, and if the magnetic field were not there all life on earth would die in short order.
OK So how is that the astronauts could survive OUTSIDE of the earths magnetic field for 5 to 12 days strait and go though the Van Alan Belts twice on each trip but suffer no problems? Except the odd "flashes" of light from cosmic radiation...
One of the previous replies mentioned that the astronauts did not encounter very much radiation exposure over the whole trip.
OK but how is that possible exactly?
When pilots and fight crews are in danger just from flying high in the Earth's atmosphere under the Full protection of the Earths magnetic field.
So why/how is the radiation danger LOWER for astronauts outside of the Earth's protective field in space and on the moon for 5 to 12 days?

Have they exaggerated the dangers of the radiation and cosmic rays from the sun and space overall?

It's not a completely crazy question is it?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2019, 08:16 PM
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Post Re: Who Started the Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory?

I always like that video. I've seen longer videos and the schmuck hounding Buzz Aldrin does so for a LONG time. Buzz didn't just decide a minute of annoyance was all he could take.


I think my favorite conspiracy theory on this is that Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landing, but being the perfectionist that he is he demanded it be filmed on-site (on the moon).
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:27 PM
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Post Re: Who Started the Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
yep pretty much the same info i menetioned.
"...1. they chose/avoided times where solar activity was high.
2. they went though the Van Allen belts very fast so not much time for exposure
3. while there they didn't get very high exposure.
4. the capsules had good shielding
so no worries."...
but the unanswered part my question still stands.
...my problem is this, Usually at the beginning of the explanation there's the admission that the earth magnetic field protects us from extremely dangerous UV rays/radiation/cosmic rays/solar radiation, and if the magnetic field were not there all life on earth would die in short order.
OK So how is that the astronauts could survive OUTSIDE of the earths magnetic field for 5 to 12 days strait and go though the Van Alan Belts twice on each trip but suffer no problems? Except the odd "flashes" of light from cosmic radiation...
One of the previous replies mentioned that the astronauts did not encounter very much radiation exposure over the whole trip.
OK but how is that possible exactly?
When pilots and fight crews are in danger just from flying high in the Earth's atmosphere under the Full protection of the Earths magnetic field.
So why/how is the radiation danger LOWER for astronauts outside of the Earth's protective field in space and on the moon for 5 to 12 days?

Have they exaggerated the dangers of the radiation and cosmic rays from the sun and space overall?

It's not a completely crazy question is it?
It's a fascinating question I had not heard before.

Keep in mind that it's not average Joe's that fly to the moon. Astronauts typically have to be in good shape.
Also, with radiation it's about the damage it does to your cells. Sometimes, long-term problems...
Most adverse health effects of radiation exposure may be grouped in two general categories:

Deterministic effects (harmful tissue reactions) due in large part to the killing/ malfunction of cells following high doses; and
Stochastic effects, i.e., cancer and heritable effects involving either cancer development in exposed individuals owing to mutation of somatic cells or heritable disease in their offspring owing to mutation of reproductive (germ) cells.[22]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiat...ects_on_humans


https://observer.com/2016/07/space-r...lo-astronauts/
A startling new study has revealed that a troubling number of the lunar astronauts from NASA’s Apollo program are suffering high mortality rates due to heart disease. The cause? Exposure to high levels of deep space radiation during their trip to the Moon.

This is the first time research has been done into the mortality of the Apollo astronauts and it was published in Scientific Reports by Professor and Dean of the college of Human Sciences at Florida State University, Michael Delp. The conclusions drawn from studying the deaths of the only humans that have ventured into deep space casts an immense shadow on the manned missions to Mars being planned by both NASA and SpaceX.

“We know very little about the effects of deep space radiation on human health, particularly on the cardiovascular system,” said Delp in an official release. “This gives us the first glimpse into its adverse effects on humans.” Deep space refers to the frontier beyond Earth’s protective magnetosphere and atmosphere where only 24 humans in history—all Apollo astronauts, have ever travelled.

Since the end of NASA’s celebrated program that saw men walk on the Moon for the last time in 1972, human spaceflight has been limited to low-Earth orbit where the International Space Station is operated inside Earth’s natural shielding from high levels of cosmic radiation. The study compared the mortality rates of lunar astronauts who have passed away to astronauts who never flew and to those who have only made it to orbit.

The number of cardiovascular disease-related deaths among the deep space astronauts were significantly higher.

The rate among astronauts who never flew is 9%. Among low-Earth orbiting astronauts, its 11%. For the men who travelled to the Moon, a staggering 43%, or 4-5 times higher than their less-travelled colleagues.The one exception to the study was Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, who passed away after the study’s data had already been collected.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2019, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Who Started the Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
It's a fascinating question I had not heard before.

Keep in mind that it's not average Joe's that fly to the moon. Astronauts typically have to be in good shape.
Also, with radiation it's about the damage it does to your cells. Sometimes, long-term problems...
Most adverse health effects of radiation exposure may be grouped in two general categories:

Deterministic effects (harmful tissue reactions) due in large part to the killing/ malfunction of cells following high doses; and
Stochastic effects, i.e., cancer and heritable effects involving either cancer development in exposed individuals owing to mutation of somatic cells or heritable disease in their offspring owing to mutation of reproductive (germ) cells.[22]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiat...ects_on_humans


https://observer.com/2016/07/space-r...lo-astronauts/
A startling new study has revealed that a troubling number of the lunar astronauts from NASA’s Apollo program are suffering high mortality rates due to heart disease. The cause? Exposure to high levels of deep space radiation during their trip to the Moon.

This is the first time research has been done into the mortality of the Apollo astronauts and it was published in Scientific Reports by Professor and Dean of the college of Human Sciences at Florida State University, Michael Delp. The conclusions drawn from studying the deaths of the only humans that have ventured into deep space casts an immense shadow on the manned missions to Mars being planned by both NASA and SpaceX.

“We know very little about the effects of deep space radiation on human health, particularly on the cardiovascular system,” said Delp in an official release. “This gives us the first glimpse into its adverse effects on humans.” Deep space refers to the frontier beyond Earth’s protective magnetosphere and atmosphere where only 24 humans in history—all Apollo astronauts, have ever travelled.

Since the end of NASA’s celebrated program that saw men walk on the Moon for the last time in 1972, human spaceflight has been limited to low-Earth orbit where the International Space Station is operated inside Earth’s natural shielding from high levels of cosmic radiation. The study compared the mortality rates of lunar astronauts who have passed away to astronauts who never flew and to those who have only made it to orbit.

The number of cardiovascular disease-related deaths among the deep space astronauts were significantly higher.

The rate among astronauts who never flew is 9%. Among low-Earth orbiting astronauts, its 11%. For the men who travelled to the Moon, a staggering 43%, or 4-5 times higher than their less-travelled colleagues.The one exception to the study was Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, who passed away after the study’s data had already been collected.
good info,
Sorry for the astronauts... even still, the effects are less severe than one (at least I) would expect from the hype about radiation and cosmic rays severity.
Thankfully so.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2019, 06:42 AM
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Default Re: Who Started the Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory?

what knee jerk comes to mind



without the earth's protective magnetic field....














slight exaggeration for effects

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