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Old 05-27-2017, 05:11 PM
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Default Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

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Old 05-27-2017, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

yep nobody who loves America wants to "go there"
there are questions but I am ok with leaving it alone and concentrating on the aftermath which wee do have proof for. that we were taken into and opec war etc
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Old 05-27-2017, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

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Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

One of the psych pros used the term "cognitive dissonance" like Bill Nye did in his little CC debate with Tucker Carlson. Not buying the "9/11 Truth" argument is similar to not buying 100% the CC platform. Deniers now have a faux condition to explain the irrational rejection of obvious truth.

I do admit that the WTC tower collapse along with the other building did seem weird but to claim that we're suffering from some sort of collective PTSD isn't science.

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Old 05-28-2017, 12:05 AM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

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Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
One of the psych pros used the term "cognitive dissonance" like Bill Nye did in his little CC debate with Tucker Carlson. Not buying the "9/11 Truth" argument is similar to not buying 100% the CC platform. Deniers now have a faux condition to explain the irrational rejection of obvious truth.

I do admit that the WTC tower collapse along with the other building did seem weird but to claim that we're suffering from some sort of collective PTSD isn't science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN5L2q6hfWo
Tucker Carlson always has that same deer in the headlights look no matter what
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Old 05-28-2017, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

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Tucker Carlson always has that same deer in the headlights look no matter what
I was pointing out the tactic of using psychobabble to explain other people not accepting a point of view. I think this is an obvious bad strategy along with consensus science. It undercuts any reasonable argument. Carlson does use expressions to effect.
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Old 05-28-2017, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

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Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
I was pointing out the tactic of using psychobabble to explain other people not accepting a point of view. I think this is an obvious bad strategy along with consensus science. It undercuts any reasonable argument. Carlson does use expressions to effect.
I don't know about 911 but I could say as I did earlier, I would distance myself from that belief as soon as I came upon it. survival tactic or something...

as for climate science it slays me how tv announcers decide to "debate" scientists. that's not even reasonable.
one thing we do seem to have cognitive dissonance toward is the effects of pollution.
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Old 05-28-2017, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

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I don't know about 911 but I could say as I did earlier, I would distance myself from that belief as soon as I came upon it. survival tactic or something...

as for climate science it slays me how tv announcers decide to "debate" scientists. that's not even reasonable.
one thing we do seem to have cognitive dissonance toward is the effects of pollution.
Well, Nye isn't a scientist and neither is the psych line up on mr. W's posted video.
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Old 05-28-2017, 02:12 AM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

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Well, Nye isn't a scientist and neither is the psych line up on mr. W's posted video.
I don't like to debate climate change. I do know pollution and over building has wrecked the country.

I think there is such a thing as blinding oneself to the truth.
That's all I got.
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Old 05-28-2017, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

I don't hold a lot of the field of Psychology and Psychiatry in the highest regard.
It's not a hard science, and has been the seed bed of a LOT of pure nonsense.
however i don't believe it's all BSery especially when it comes to actuaully recording the various actions and reactions of people to various similui.

While their characterizations and classifications and conclusions are subject to real critique or sometimes being ignored.

in this case I think "cognitive dissidents" is something that can be recognized as ONE of many ...or in the mix... of human reactions to various events or new information.

I DO NOT beleive it's THE reason for ANYONE that does not beleive this or that information on any issue.

but like the well recorded idea that people go through various stages when confronted with bad news, of say a bad diagnosis from a doctor or the death of loved one.
1st reaction is often Denial that denial depending on how severe can be accompanied by Anger, attacks on messenger, searches for a 2nd 3rd and 4th opinions.

to me concerning issues in the political, historical and science realm that touch on ...as on of the speakers in the video mentioned... "PARADIGMS" of how the world "IS", then bit of anomalous evidence isn't as powerful as a person's overview, especially if the there is a "consensus" of some kind giving solace to the views in question.

When a sick person cant function anymore the evidence becomes a bit hard to deny.
When a dead body is at the funeral home the death of the love one becomes nearly impossible to deny.

But with Science, Political, historical and religious questions which are more arms length. Each person can selectively EXCLUDE evidence from their internal assessment that they don't like.

And if people try to bring them up I do believe the various natural human psychological reactions come into play.

I think "cognitive dissidents" is as good a term as any to describe that.
HOWEVER i think it should NOT be assumed that just because someone is NOT on board with certain POVs that that person is just experiencing "cognitive dissidents". The person could have very solid reasons for their beliefs Or NOT be AWARE of counter evidence, or they could be RIGHT.

But Willy nilly affixing psychological labels (benign or otherwise) to those that disagree with you is not honest.
But in some cases i think "cognitive dissidents" is something to consider as a part of many discussions. And if the shoe fits. Yes. it's there.
In the video one of the psychologist saw the reaction withen herself.

I like to be be more evidenced based in my presentations. But when people begin ignore, off handily dismiss, or try to minimize evidence presented, and start name calling, start appeals to authority, appeals consensus, appeals to circular reasoning, bad logic and angry attacks I start to wonder WHAT IS really going on in persons head.

seems to me "cognitive dissidents" is one real option.

SIDEBAR:
Psychology and Psychiatry
the root prefix PSYCH or PYCHE = the Greek term for "soul" or "spirit"
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Old 05-28-2017, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
I don't hold a lot of the field of Psychology and Psychiatry in the highest regard.
It's not a hard science, and has been the seed bed of a LOT of pure nonsense.
however i don't believe it's all BSery especially when it comes to actuaully recording the various actions and reactions of people to various similui.

While their characterizations and classifications and conclusions are subject to real critique or sometimes being ignored.

in this case I think "cognitive dissidents" is something that can be recognized as ONE of many ...or in the mix... of human reactions to various events or new information.

I DO NOT beleive it's THE reason for ANYONE that does not beleive this or that information on any issue.

but like the well recorded idea that people go through various stages when confronted with bad news, of say a bad diagnosis from a doctor or the death of loved one.
1st reaction is often Denial that denial depending on how severe can be accompanied by Anger, attacks on messenger, searches for a 2nd 3rd and 4th opinions.

to me concerning issues in the political, historical and science realm that touch on ...as on of the speakers in the video mentioned... "PARADIGMS" of how the world "IS", then bit of anomalous evidence isn't as powerful as a person's overview, especially if the there is a "consensus" of some kind giving solace to the views in question.

When a sick person cant function anymore the evidence becomes a bit hard to deny.
When a dead body is at the funeral home the death of the love one becomes nearly impossible to deny.

But with Science, Political, historical and religious questions which are more arms length. Each person can selectively EXCLUDE evidence from their internal assessment that they don't like.

And if people try to bring them up I do believe the various natural human psychological reactions come into play.

I think "cognitive dissidents" is as good a term as any to describe that.
HOWEVER i think it should NOT be assumed that just because someone is NOT on board with certain POVs that that person is just experiencing "cognitive dissidents". The person could have very solid reasons for their beliefs Or NOT be AWARE of counter evidence, or they could be RIGHT.

But Willy nilly affixing psychological labels (benign or otherwise) to those that disagree with you is not honest.
But in some cases i think "cognitive dissidents" is something to consider as a part of many discussions. And if the shoe fits. Yes. it's there.
In the video one of the psychologist saw the reaction withen herself.

I like to be be more evidenced based in my presentations. But when people begin ignore, off handily dismiss, or try to minimize evidence presented, and start name calling, start appeals to authority, appeals consensus, appeals to circular reasoning, bad logic and angry attacks I start to wonder WHAT IS really going on in persons head.

seems to me "cognitive dissidents" is one real option.

SIDEBAR:
Psychology and Psychiatry
the root prefix PSYCH or PYCHE = the Greek term for "soul" or "spirit"
I believe the term attached to the theory is "cognitive dissonance" not dissidents. Lots of people are in denial about a lot of things, some big, some small. In your video, one of the psychology gals expressed her personal reaction to the reading of an article by Professor Griffin. That would be David Ray Griffin who appears later in the video after another psychologist named Robert E. Griffin. (not sure if they're related).
I think there are 3 issues. 1. The Truth about 9/11. 2. Use of psych experts to push POV 3. Commercial interests such as selling books, donations, etc.

Psychology Experts Speak Out: ?Why is the 9/11 Evidence Difficult for Some to Accept??
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