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Conspiracy Theories Discuss Psychologists Explain 911 Denial at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by zoriolus I believe the term attached to the theory is "cognitive dissonance" not dissidents. LOL I caught ...

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Old 05-28-2017, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
I believe the term attached to the theory is "cognitive dissonance" not dissidents.
LOL I caught that TOO LATE. (tahnks speel cheek)
"cognitive dissidents" would probably be those that mentally buck the status quo. I may have get Pysh degree and do a paper, start a clinic

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
Lots of people are in denial about a lot of things, some big, some small. In your video, one of the psychology gals expressed her personal reaction to the reading of an article by Professor Griffin. That would be David Ray Griffin who appears later in the video after another psychologist named Robert E. Griffin. (not sure if they're related).
I think there are 3 issues. 1. The Truth about 9/11. 2. Use of psych experts to push POV 3. Commercial interests such as selling books, donations, etc.

Psychology Experts Speak Out: ?Why is the 9/11 Evidence Difficult for Some to Accept??
"1. The Truth about 9/11."
should be established by the evidence.
and as you say, people are in denial about a lot of things, this may in fact be one of them.

"2. Use of psych experts to push POV"
Well, Ok I refer you to my previous post, "if the shoe fits".
And BTW that video is simply one PART of a larger hard science based presentation.
Plus more importantly here, one thing that is standard operating procedure AGAINST certain unpopular POVs is the dismissing of the proponents as "CRAZY". "911 truthers" or other conspiracy theory proponents are regularly labeled as CRAZY or and paranoid. It's quick lazy rebuttal tactic number #1. And 99% of the time there are ZERO psychology professionals to back up the claim AT ALL. But news people, politicians and laymen alike toss out the label about lack of sanity as if it has real meaning. And assume those assertions should close the discussion.

so I have no problem with a few 911 truth proponents, as professional psychologist, making the mild claim that SOME people may reject certain ideas based on certain psychological reactions rather than JUST a rational assessment of the facts at hand.

"3. Commercial interests such as selling books, donations, etc."
Do you have any hard evidence or other indications that these people are just in it for the money? Or does this just make them suspect?
there's no Doubt that MONEY is always a factor to consider when looking at the credibility of ANY source. But it doesn't automatically disqualify the claims in this case. Either what they said is true or false ...or somewhere in-between. the fact that they MAY or MAY not each be making billions(?) of dollars off of the info doesn't change the accuracy of the claims.

But Follow the money is always important, and frankly in the 911 case there's FAR more money and money trails that make the offical story look fishy than any donations and DVD sales would make for any of the participants in 911 truth promotion. Alex Jones would probably be the biggest Monetary winner on that side of the ledger. BUT Silverstein, the owner of the twin tower complex, literally got BILLIONs in insurance, and then there's the large stock 'Put options' placed on the airlines before they crashed, and the cases against Banks dropped because files against them were kept in one of the twin towers... etc etc...

If DVDs, book sales and donations make 991 truthers info SUSPECT it'd seem reasonable that Silverstien and others should come under at least as much scrutiny.
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Old 05-29-2017, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
LOL I caught that TOO LATE. (tahnks speel cheek)
"cognitive dissidents" would probably be those that mentally buck the status quo. I may have get Pysh degree and do a paper, start a clinic
I suppose the term isn't too snooty. In music, atonal or dissonant notes and chords are interesting and sometimes beautiful even if unresolved. We are faced with contradictory data and information all the time which sometimes forces us to change our world view. ( Jack Nicholson said "You can't handle the truth").

Quote:
"1. The Truth about 9/11."
should be established by the evidence.
and as you say, people are in denial about a lot of things, this may in fact be one of them.
OK. It may be one of the things that a portion of the population is in denial or partial denial about assuming that David Ray Griffin is totally or partially correct. From what I've seen, there are some things in his favor such as the willingness of our elected officials and media to feed us crap. Some of the physical evidence is intriguing as was the case in the OKC bombing. What I tend to go with is that the truth is somewhere in the middle most of the time.

Quote:
"2. Use of psych experts to push POV"
Well, Ok I refer you to my previous post, "if the shoe fits".
And BTW that video is simply one PART of a larger hard science based presentation.
Plus more importantly here, one thing that is standard operating procedure AGAINST certain unpopular POVs is the dismissing of the proponents as "CRAZY". "911 truthers" or other conspiracy theory proponents are regularly labeled as CRAZY or and paranoid. It's quick lazy rebuttal tactic number #1. And 99% of the time there are ZERO psychology professionals to back up the claim AT ALL. But news people, politicians and laymen alike toss out the label about lack of sanity as if it has real meaning. And assume those assertions should close the discussion.

so I have no problem with a few 911 truth proponents, as professional psychologist, making the mild claim that SOME people may reject certain ideas based on certain psychological reactions rather than JUST a rational assessment of the facts at hand.
I guess I experienced cognitive dissonance about psychiatry when I did some reading and understood that much of psychiatry and its' treatments were bogus. The validation of mental health experts diminishes point 1.

Quote:
"3. Commercial interests such as selling books, donations, etc." Do you have any hard evidence or other indications that these people are just in it for the money? Or does this just make them suspect?
there's no Doubt that MONEY is always a factor to consider when looking at the credibility of ANY source. But it doesn't automatically disqualify the claims in this case. Either what they said is true or false ...or somewhere in-between. the fact that they MAY or MAY not each be making billions(?) of dollars off of the info doesn't change the accuracy of the claims.

But Follow the money is always important, and frankly in the 911 case there's FAR more money and money trails that make the offical story look fishy than any donations and DVD sales would make for any of the participants in 911 truth promotion. Alex Jones would probably be the biggest Monetary winner on that side of the ledger. BUT Silverstein, the owner of the twin tower complex, literally got BILLIONs in insurance, and then there's the large stock 'Put options' placed on the airlines before they crashed, and the cases against Banks dropped because files against them were kept in one of the twin towers... etc etc...

If DVDs, book sales and donations make 991 truthers info SUSPECT it'd seem reasonable that Silverstien and others should come under at least as much scrutiny.
I left a a website link where books, videos, coffee mugs, and T shirts are available. I'm not saying money is the main motive here but getting the word out requires resources. From what I know, the Truther argument has some compelling features. I appreciate that you know a lot about this subject.

Question: I thought that the Truther position at one time was that no plane hit the pentagon. Right or wrong conclusion?
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Old 05-29-2017, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Psychologists Explain 911 Denial

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
...
Question: I thought that the Truther position at one time was that no plane hit the pentagon. Right or wrong conclusion?
there are multiple speculations as to what might have happened at the pentagon. (and the towers).
It depends on who you read.
But I think a majority do think that it's unlikely that the named passenger plane hit the pentagon. 2 of the main points they use to support that idea are:
1. the fact that planes of that kind cannot fly that fast that low. it's aerodynamically impossible.
2 a and b. the fact that the initial hole in the side of the building was too small to account for the plane. And the apparent lack of plane wreckage, including plane wheels, engines, luggage, seats, bodies etc..

There's more of course but those are probably the 2 most obvious points that many start from.
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Last edited by mr. wonder; 05-29-2017 at 11:17 AM..
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