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Conspiracy Theories Discuss Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK at the General Discussion; This, like a lot of investigations turns on what evidence is NOT mentioned or thought important in peoples explanations and ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2012, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK

This, like a lot of investigations turns on what evidence is NOT mentioned or thought important in peoples explanations and what is most likely rather than what explanation will thinly cover the circumstances.

to many people lean on what's "good for the the country" and "since i don't have 100% proof otherwise i'll stick with the official story" rather than let all the fact dictate the most likely events.

And for some reason our American Exceptionalism makes us think we are somehow immune to gov conspiracies, which we freely admit happened all the time in other countries and through out recorded history.
But somehow in the US it's just "crazy talk" and psychologically weak to imagine that any government conspiracy could happen here.

I don't understand how Human Nature and social customs in America have made our elected and appointed officials incapable of conspiracy.

But in many people's minds it has, so that often the argument comes down to "your crazy and i'm lowering myself to explain to you that Americans wouldn't do -fill in conspiracy here- no matter what the evidence says there's SOME OTHER Explanation that's barely plausible and that's good enough. Always. because I JUST CAN"T believe that other.
Because "why would they.... Somebody would have... that would mean so many people lied.... it just doesn't make sense." "other evidence be damned"... "your an crazy stupid idiot".



Cesar didn't believe in conspiracy theories either, well he did finally.
"et tu Brute?"


But yeah, the The House Select committee concluded that based on the evidence Oswald was not acting alone. Therefore it was a conspiracy.
conspiracy:Law . an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

let's see where we go.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK

just FYI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer Collins View Post
I would highly recommend the book Case Closed by Gerald Posner. He makes a strong argument for a lone gunman. That said,some will never be convinced of the lone gunman theory but the book is well worth reading.
Quote:
Gerald Posner "Although I'm convinced Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated President Kennedy, I've always believed that had Mark Lane represented Oswald, he would have won an acquittal. That's why Mark Lane was the obvious choice as my own attorney."

Read more: Gerald Posner hires fellow Kennedy assassination author Mark Lane to defend him over plaigarism attacks - NYPOST.com
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awahso View Post
In many respects, evidence can be subjective. Evidence is only as good as its factual and perceived validity.

Dallas Police Officer Tom Tilson was with his daughter when he heard of the shooting. He was driving on Commerce Street when he saw a man quickly run down from the small hill, throw a long object into his vehicle, and speed off. The officer followed him for several blocks on Industrial Boulevard west of the assassination site. He had his daughter write down the license plate number and he turned it in later that day.

Tom Tilson -- Supposed JFK Assassination Dealey Plaza Witness

There are many other witness on that list and others who either saw or heard another shooter on the Grassy Knoll or in a few instances in the same building as Oswald.
Echos. And heightened awareness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
This, like a lot of investigations turns on what evidence is NOT mentioned or thought important in peoples explanations and what is most likely rather than what explanation will thinly cover the circumstances.

to many people lean on what's "good for the the country" and "since i don't have 100% proof otherwise i'll stick with the official story" rather than let all the fact dictate the most likely events.

And for some reason our American Exceptionalism makes us think we are somehow immune to gov conspiracies, which we freely admit happened all the time in other countries and through out recorded history.
But somehow in the US it's just "crazy talk" and psychologically weak to imagine that any government conspiracy could happen here.

I don't understand how Human Nature and social customs in America have made our elected and appointed officials incapable of conspiracy.

But in many people's minds it has, so that often the argument comes down to "your crazy and i'm lowering myself to explain to you that Americans wouldn't do -fill in conspiracy here- no matter what the evidence says there's SOME OTHER Explanation that's barely plausible and that's good enough. Always. because I JUST CAN"T believe that other.
Because "why would they.... Somebody would have... that would mean so many people lied.... it just doesn't make sense." "other evidence be damned"... "your an crazy stupid idiot".



Cesar didn't believe in conspiracy theories either, well he did finally.
"et tu Brute?"


But yeah, the The House Select committee concluded that based on the evidence Oswald was not acting alone. Therefore it was a conspiracy.
conspiracy:Law . an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

let's see where we go.
No one has ever doubted the conspiracy to kill Caesar. It was common knowledge among some at the time. Of course he was surprised but after his death no one claimed a lone nut ball was responsible.

The fact Oswald's wife lived a simple life afterward, is one thing that suports the story she was married to a nut job not connected with a mob boss at all
Then we have Oswald's killer. He knew he had cancer and he just knew he could get away with it. Maybe the police did look side ways a moment but not because he was making a hit, but because he was getting rid of scum (according to anyone who would look the other way.)
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Echos. And heightened awareness.


No one has ever doubted the conspiracy to kill Caesar. It was common knowledge among some at the time. Of course he was surprised but after his death no one claimed a lone nut ball was responsible.

The fact Oswald's wife lived a simple life afterward, is one thing that supports the story she was married to a nut job not connected with a mob boss at all .
so a women who lives a simple life after the death of the husband means they are not connected to the Mob and their husbands were nut job lone gunmen? Seems a stretch even if i had brought up Oswald or his wife or the mob.


Then we have Oswald's killer. He knew he had cancer and he just knew he could get away with it. did i bring up Ruby? Do people with cancer decide they can get away with murder? Not exactly hard core evidence of an easier motive.

Maybe the police did look side ways a moment but not because he was making a hit, but because he was getting rid of scum (according to anyone who would look the other way.)
Didn't mention the cops. But if they did look away, for whatever reason, it would not prove Oswalds guilt or innocents.

Here's an oldy but a goody "Rush to judgement" It has some great nuggets.
The 1st 10 minutes is basically a repeat of the news TV news reports of Oswald the day of. That alone puts the lone gunman story in question.
Then a Oswald military friend knew of Oswalds "markmanship" and he was NOT a markman. it was a joke.
Following that up until about the 1 hour mark you get Eye witness after eye witness repeating the same story "grassy knol.. the hill... the fence.. puff of smoke... I was in the military i know a shot... "
he asked some and they said
"Well i heard and saw ..from the hill.. but now they TELL ME that it came from the Book depository"
Finally he ask several over and over, did the police take your testimony
"yes... yes.. yes"
did the Warren commission take your testimony
"No... no... no... yes but they changed it."

After the 1 hour mark the most interesting thing to me is that it shows that the police did lie in a way that would Cover their assets on several items.

Did the police know jack Ruby?
Police Chief: " we did a survey and only ..50 of that 50 only 4 every went to his club and that on police biz"
Did the police know jack Ruby?
Woman who worked in Ruby's club as bartender and Ruby's piano player:
"OH Yes Jack knew half of the police force, He Told me Never to charge a policeman for drinks and we had a special stock just for them, he got them drinks, women and let them gamble... we treated them very well. they knew jack very well."

It doesn't prove guilt on the polices part concerning JFK or Oswald but shows clearly that the officails in case lied on several occasions, and that puts what they say in question on every front. at teh very least we can't just assume that the police or the commission are telling the truth.

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Last edited by mr. wonder; 09-21-2012 at 07:39 PM..
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK

The vast majority of Americans do not believe Oswald acted alone. I'm saying that I lean towards the idea that he could have acted alone. I also do not rule out multiple shooters.Motive to kill JFK was present on several fronts but we cannot totally rule out the "possibility" that like Guiteau and Hinckley,Oswald was motivated by psychosis and the fame and success that was denied him in life.I doubt that Oswald required any "help" whatsoever beyond a good measure of luck in his brief escape. Were those shots in rapid succession "possible" with any chance of accuracy? though unlikely..they were in my opinion..possible.

Quote:
People claimed that Oswald was a poor shot because he was classified as a Marksman in the Marines; a Marksman is still a very good shot; Oswald’s final classification in the Marines was as a Marksman — the year before he qualified as a Sharpshooter; It’s been proven many times by casual shooters that the shots were not impossible to get off or be fairly accurate with.
Quote:
The conclusion of the Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald was not part of a conspiracy is supported by a considerable amount of evidence. Perhaps a more thorough examination of certain aspects bearing on the conspiracy issue could have been undertaken. No amount of evidence, however, could satisfy everyone, for no matter how thorough the investigation, proving a negative beyond every doubt is an impossible task. But the overwhelming evidence gathered by the Commission leads to only one reasonable conclusion—that Lee Harvey Oswald was a psychologically disturbed individual who acted alone, without help from any group or nation.

(J. M. van Bemmelen is Professor of Law at the University of Leiden, The Netherlands.)

Did Lee Harvey Oswald Act Without Help?

I'm sure that many more books will be written on this subject but we may never have all of the answers due to bungling the investigation and the passage of time.

Fortunately for the conspiracy industry,I believe this case will never be closed the assassin was himself assassinated by an assassin.If others were charged,they would be tried in abstention because most of them are dead. The JFK conspiracy will live on till the end of time and it will keep countless writers employed on both sides of the argument.That's good for the economy but the conspiracy debate in my view,cannot be won by either camp conclusively.

I believe J. M. van Bemmelen is correct..."No amount of evidence, however, could satisfy everyone, for no matter how thorough the investigation, proving a negative beyond every doubt is an impossible task"

Please PM me when one of you has conclusive proof of a conspiracy and a trial date has been set and I will return to this thread.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer Collins View Post
...

I believe J. M. van Bemmelen is correct..."No amount of evidence, however, could satisfy everyone, for no matter how thorough the investigation, proving a negative beyond every doubt is an impossible task"

Please PM me when one of you has conclusive proof of a conspiracy and a trial date has been set and I will return to this thread.
Ah, I see your looking for "conclusive" proof of a Conspiracy but as long as it's "possible" but unlikely and "lucky" it's enough for the lone gunman to be accepted.

Not exactly judging the evidence on an equal basis if "possible" is OK for a win for the official story but "conclusive" is needed for a win on conspiracy.

Differential rigor is name I've heard used for that.
But that's the way it is.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK

Quote:
Retired Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock is likewise skeptical of Oswald's alleged shooting feat. Hathcock is a former senior instructor at the U. S. Marine Corps Sniper Instruction School at Quantico, Virginia. He has been described as the most famous American military sniper in history. In Vietnam he was credited with 93 confirmed kills. He now conducts police SWAT team sniper schools across the country. Craig Roberts asked Hathcock about the marksmanship feat attributed to Oswald by the Warren Commission. Hathcock answered that he did not believe Oswald could have done what the Commission said he did. Added Hathcock:

"Let me tell you what we did at Quantico. We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don't know how many times we tried it, but we couldn't duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did". (KILL ZONE, pp. 89-90).
Kennedy assassination :Gunny Hathcock's take
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Debate me on it ...
Who planted the "pristine" bullet that was reported to go thru two men.....?

And why.....?


I've got several more questions, we'll take them one at a time in this thread....

I'll be back tomorrow after work.....
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
Who planted the "pristine" bullet that was reported to go thru two men.....?

And why.....?


I've got several more questions, we'll take them one at a time in this thread....

I'll be back tomorrow after work.....

Read this:

Was the "pristine bullet" really pristine?

Quote:
In summary, we have here a case where truth is stranger than fiction. CE 399, far from being the unbelievable bullet that the JFK critical movement claims, actually behaved totally normally as it passed with ease through two bodies and did exactly what it was designed to do. There is NO MYSTERY associated with CE 399. The term "magic bullet" is false and highly misleading.
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Lee Oswald a lone gunman killed JFK

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Excuse me.....??

This bullet below did not strike and pass thru two human beings.......





I wonder who planted it.....
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